How High Can It Go?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

Silver Crusade

What is the highest you can raise a single ability score to?
Belt, headband, whatever, how high can you permanently boost it?


STR is the stat to boost.

I'd say Orc Bloodrager, 20th level, Abyssal bloodline. Start with an 18 in STR. If you can go past 20, then toss in some Dragon Disciple levels. Add the Eldritch Heritage (Orc) chain, then put on a belt of STR. Get a brown fur arcanist friend to use Shapechange or Form of the Dragon III on you. Alchemist mutagens will also make you happy, though I'm not exactly sure where to fit an alchemist level in. Perhaps an ally Visionary Researcher alchemist will help. Get a Succubus to boost your STR by 2.

Though this is all moot if you can start as anything in the monster manual.


I don' know if you want to add Dragon Disciple since you dont get the Abyssal str buff for a little while...

But form of the Dragon would be helpful...

I wonder why the Orc bloodline power is not listed as a Polymorph effect... because technically that allows it to be stacked with Enlarge self... which is scary..


Pixie, the Leng Queen wrote:

I don' know if you want to add Dragon Disciple since you dont get the Abyssal str buff for a little while...

But form of the Dragon would be helpful...

I wonder why the Orc bloodline power is not listed as a Polymorph effect... because technically that allows it to be stacked with Enlarge self... which is scary..

It's an inherent bonus, which is the same type that people pay a wish for. Except that this goes higher than Wish can ever take you. I think it's purposefully meant that way, so you could use Alter Self to actually turn into an orc (if you weren't one already) and get the bonus to stack.


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My Self wrote:
Pixie, the Leng Queen wrote:

I don' know if you want to add Dragon Disciple since you dont get the Abyssal str buff for a little while...

But form of the Dragon would be helpful...

I wonder why the Orc bloodline power is not listed as a Polymorph effect... because technically that allows it to be stacked with Enlarge self... which is scary..

It's an inherent bonus, which is the same type that people pay a wish for. Except that this goes higher than Wish can ever take you. I think it's purposefully meant that way, so you could use Alter Self to actually turn into an orc (if you weren't one already) and get the bonus to stack.

Remember,orc bloodline gets 2 str bonuses... one is the inherent bonus similair to Abyssal. The other though (level 15 ability) is a temporary SIZE BONUS. The level 15 ability makes you large sized and nets you a size bonus... this gets nuts with abyssal as well since:

At 20th level

Active orc ability to get +6 str size bonus and become large.

Activate rage to get get +8 str

Also get +6 from abyssal bloodrage

You also get +2 bonus from growing to huge size from Abyssal Bulk...

And you got a +6 inherent bonus from str...

Assuming Orc with 22 starting str (because why not), all 5 level boosts into str, and a belt of +6....

That nets u:
61 str??? Oh... if you want to be worse, forgo the size upgrade from abyssal and have a buddy cast.form of the dragon 3

That gives you a +10 str bonus...

Which gets you to 69...

Yeah... thats 69 str behind a powerattacking bite, claw claw, wing, wing, tail... ouch...


That other orc bloodline ability doesn't stack with turning into a giant dragon. Size bonuses don't stack. Still:

18 point buy/roll
4 racial (orc)
5 level advancement
4 morale (rage)
2 morale (greater rage, stacks)
2 morale (mighty rage, stacks)
6 morale (abyssal bloodrage, stacks)
6 enhancement (belt)
5 inherent (tome or 5 wishes, does not stack)
6 inherent (orc sorcerer bloodline)
2 size (demonic bulk, does not stack)
6 size (power of giants, does not stack)
10 size (form of the dragon III)
2 profane (succubus)
1 alchemical (visionary researcher mutagen, stacks)
1 alchemical (greater mutagen, stacks)
1 alchemical (grand mutagen, stacks)
1 alchemical (true mutagen, stacks)

69 total

The alchemical boosts are not permanent, and Form of the Dragon III isn't, either, though going crossblooded into Draconic will allow you to consistently use form of the Dragon II when you rage.

Silver Crusade

While I appreciate the effort and numbers, I have to point out...

zanbato13 wrote:
how high can you permanently boost it?


18 point buy/roll
4 racial (orc)
5 level advancement
6 enhancement (belt)
5 inherent (tome or 5 wishes, does not stack)
6 inherent (orc sorcerer bloodline)
2 size (permanent enlarge person)
2 profane (succubus)
4 untyped (dragon disciple)

47


If we interpret this post as also being aimed at the many NPCs browsing the internet too, you could begin at racial 42 with an awakened blue whale, who being awakened, can then take class levels (and read the internet) and use all of the above tricks I think. :D

Anyway 42 (whale) starts 20 higher than 22 (orc), so 89 temp, 67 perm?

Not 100% sure it could wear a belt.


Crimeo wrote:
Not 100% sure it could wear a belt.

Guess they'll have to do with suspenders of giant strength.


If the GM allows templates (ours do) Half-Dragon adds +8 to STR... for only 2 levels of advancement.

It grants other fun stuff too...

Silver Crusade

Whale for the Str win.

But what about other ability scores?


If you're templating, just start stacking Advanced templates and buying the necessary items.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

You're leaving off +10 untyped increase from 10 mythic tiers.

I mean, since we're counting everything possible.


There is a sorcerer item, some kine of blood vial, that gives a 1-round +8. See the Blood Money threads to maxing Str, since once you cap 51, that spell lets you cast free wishes.

Just a note: if money is not a limit, you can get an enhancement item greater than +6. I.e. +10 = 10*10*1000 = 100,000 gp. No epic limit to deal with like in 3.X.

If you are a beast-bond witch, you can psuedo-magic-jar your way into Cthulhu if you can make is fail the save.

Druids that count as animals (via that feat) can be temporarily drained, awakened, restored, to gain stats as well.

/cevah

Scarab Sages

Well for Charisma, Wisdom, Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution there is the Nature Oracle - Awaken exploit

Nature Oracle Capstone:
At 20th level, you have discovered the intrinsic secrets of life itself, granting you incredible control over your own body. Once per day, you can surround yourself with an organic cocoon as a full-round action. While enclosed in the cocoon, you are considered helpless. Eight hours later, you emerge having changed your type to plant, animal, or humanoid, gaining superficial physical characteristics as appropriate (see the Pathfinder RPG Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Bestiary). This change does not alter your Hit Dice, hit points, saving throws, skill points, class skills, or proficiencies. Each time the transformation is made, you are cleansed of all poisons or diseases, are restored to full hit points, and heal all ability damage. You must select a new type every time the transformation is made.

Awaken:
You awaken a tree or animal to human-like sentience. To succeed, you must make a Will save (DC 10 + the animal's current HD, or the HD the tree will have once awakened). The awakened animal or tree is friendly toward you. You have no special empathy or connection with a creature you awaken, although it serves you in specific tasks or endeavors if you communicate your desires to it. If you cast awaken again, any previously awakened creatures remain friendly to you, but they no longer undertake tasks for you unless it is in their best interests.

An awakened tree has characteristics as if it were an animated object, except that it gains the plant type and its Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores are each 3d6. An awakened plant gains the ability to move its limbs, roots, vines, creepers, and so forth, and it has senses similar to a human's.

An awakened animal gets 3d6 Intelligence, +1d3 Charisma, and +2 HD. Its type becomes magical beast (augmented animal). An awakened animal can't serve as an animal companion, familiar, or special mount.

An awakened tree or animal can speak one language that you know, plus one additional language that you know per point of Intelligence bonus (if any). This spell does not function on an animal or plant with an Intelligence greater than 2.

Because the combo gives you actual Hit Dice, you get infinite in every physical stat, and CHA is a higher infinite.

1) Become Nature Oracle 20
2) Capture a Ningyo or something else that allows you to deal Int damage to yourself safely (Geass it to stay peacefully and willingly in the Timeless plane you've created for it)
3) Cocoon into an animal type
4) Reduce Int to 1 or 2
5) Awaken yourself into a Magical Beast (Nat 20 is always a success on a save)
6) Repeat steps 3-5 until you become a God

Infinite Str, Dex, Con, Wis, and Cha. Also you speak every language, and then some.


I had a character with 46 STR once. It was a mythic tier 6 champion, a Human MoMS/Unarmed Fighter/Sorceror/Dragon Disciple who specialized in Dragon Style. IIRC, it had 46 regular STR(18 base + 2 human + 6 enchantment + 4 from Dragon Disciple + 5 from wishes + 3 from level advancement + 2 enhanced path ability + 6 mythic). With Dragon Form II it would hit 52, which was just funny on attack & damage rolls on all those attacks.


Timebomb wrote:

Well for Charisma, Wisdom, Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution there is the Nature Oracle - Awaken exploit

** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **...

A) No GM would allow this

B) With INT 1-2, that falls below the 'sentient' range-probably no longer able to cast spells (regardless of whether or not they are CHA based)
C) See A.

Silver Crusade

And since your HD increase, so does the DC on the Will save of Awaken.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

Timebomb wrote:

Well for Charisma, Wisdom, Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution there is the Nature Oracle - Awaken exploit

** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **...

You'd have to use Int drain, not damage (damage doesn't actually reduce your ability score) - and awaken doesn't heal drain, so if you roll poorly on your 3d6 you're unconscious permanently until some friendly person gives you a restoration. Feeblemind would do it, but then you'd also have a 1 Cha so no oracle casting.

Also awaken costs 2000 gp per casting. Not so bad when you start the process, but once you're fishing for Nat 20s on the Will save that 40k gp average per iteration is going to get pricey. It also takes one day per casting.

So we've got a long, drawn out expensive ritual that only rarely provides benefits and carries risks. This sounds more like a plot point than an exploit to me.


Quote:
B) With INT 1-2, that falls below the 'sentient' range-probably no longer able to cast spells (regardless of whether or not they are CHA based)

I'm 95% sure that's not a rule. But points (A) and (C), yes.

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