So we have the Celestial half-humanoid and the fiend half-humanoid, but what happens if they meet and have a baby? There isn't anything in base game for a Nephilim type race and I haven't found anything for them in the forums.
I recently finished reviewing the Blood of Fiends/Angels companion books and created my own idea of what they would be stated at. (It assumes that the base Aasimar and Base Tiefling count as "bloodlines".)
Size: M
Speed: 30ft
Languages: Infernal or Abyssal and Celestial with extras from Int Common, Elven, Halfling, Dwarven, and their base race's language (if not already on the list). They understand both Infernal/Abyssal and Celestial at birth although they can't speak it until they can speak another language.
Type: Outsider (Native) and their base race's subtype
Ability Score Mod: +2 any (as human), one of the +2's from each of their selected bloodline of Tiefling and Aasimar, and the -2 from both of their selected Bloodlines. The Bonus selected from the bloodlines can not overlap (ie a Aasimar bonus to STR and CON and a Tiefling bonus to STR and WIS can not pick STR for both).
Nephilim get either a +2 bonus to attack against any outsiders besides other Nephilim or a +1 on all saving throws against their effects and to AC
Nephilim get a +2 to one of the skills from each bloodline (but they can overlap)
Nephilim can select one of either the base traits or bloodline traits from both Tiefling and Aasimar
Nephilim get both of the bloodlines spell like abilities once per day each.
Nephilim have Lowlight vision and Darkvision but only to 30ft
Nephilim can spend a full round action to learn about the targets alignment, but until the character knows the targets alignment it takes a -1 to AC, SR (if it has any), and Saving throws until it knows the creatures alignment. If the target has something to obfuscate the ability's reading of the target, the Nephilim receives the false Alignment but does not still take the penalty.
These abilities and traits have their own story/lore reasons behind them but right now looking for balance concerns. Any feedback is welcome.
I have read the race creation guide several times and hence why the nephilim only stats to 14RP give or take, assuming the options were limited to base tiefling and Aasimar there would probably be a single, easy to please everyone, stat. However because there are several "spin off" versions of both races in each of their own companion books, it feels like it would be robbing that customization from the player.
The wide customization feel is also intended, while it isn't meant to rob humans of its niche (all of the players in the game I intend to use this in almost never play humans because they are "too bland").
Its to offset the benefit of the customization and on the former specifically to enforce a flavor as the judges of "alignment" or morals.
Your race seems to have a lot of flexibility that might merit a core race plus expansive racial heritage to further specifiy, like the aasimar and tieflings each had. Below I tried to capture what you were going for while keeping the versatility on the same level as a standard race.
Nephilim Racial Traits
+2 to One Ability Score: Nephilim characters get a +2 bonus to any one ability score of their choice at creation to represent their varied nature.
Native Outsider: Nephilim are outsiders with the native subtype.
Medium: Nephilim are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Normal Speed: Nephilim have a base speed of 30 feet.
Darkvision: Nephilim can see in the dark up to 60 feet.
Nephilim Resistance: Nephalim gain acid resistance 5, cold resistance 5, electricity resistance 5, and fire resistance 5.
See Alignment: Nephalim gain the ability to cast See Alignment as a spell-like ability 1/day.
Skilled: Nephalim gain a +1 bonus to Bluff, Diplomacy, Perception and Stealth checks.
Slayer: Nephalim gain a +1 racial bonus on attack rolls against Outsiders with the Good or Evil subtypes.
Languages: Nephilim begin play speaking Common, Celestial and either Infernal or Abyssal. Nephilim with high intelligence scores can choose from the following: Abyssal, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Halfling, Infernal, and Orc.
A total of 13 RP.
Nephilim Racial Traits
+2 to One Ability Score: Nephilim characters get a +2 bonus to any one ability score of their choice at creation to represent their varied nature.
Native Outsider: Nephilim are outsiders with the native subtype.
Medium: Nephilim are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Normal Speed: Nephilim have a base speed of 30 feet.
Darkvision: Nephilim can see in the dark up to 60 feet.
Nephilim Resistance: Nephalim gain acid resistance 5, cold resistance 5, electricity resistance 5, and fire resistance 5.
See Alignment: Nephalim gain the ability to cast See Alignment as a spell-like ability 1/day.
Skilled: Nephalim gain a +1 bonus to Bluff, Diplomacy, Perception and Stealth checks.
Slayer: Nephalim gain a +1 racial bonus on attack rolls against Outsiders with the Good or Evil subtypes.
Languages: Nephilim begin play speaking Common, Celestial and either Infernal or Abyssal. Nephilim with high intelligence scores can choose from the following: Abyssal, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Halfling, Infernal, and Orc.A total of 13 RP.
The only issue with putting it down like that is it negates the bloodline variances. There probably is a good way to mark each ability to be able to replaced by something akin to the tiefling and Aasimar's bloodlines but it would require more write in alternate racial traits then I care to write up.
Its to offset the benefit of the customization and on the former specifically to enforce a flavor as the judges of "alignment" or morals.But there is by definition no realized "benefit" for customization, and the class literally doesn't give a f#$& about the alignment after judgement... it's like recognizing an animal that had a limb cut off and not recognizing it's the same creature... so you cannot run it over with a car accidently.
It just makes no sense... if you want to give it some kind of mechanical cookies for alignment recognition however... then this could become a neat niche for the race, that until you identify you get penalized, but if you recognize an opposing alignment, you get something like 1.5-2x damage, DR, attack bonus, AC bonus, knowledge check bonus, diplomacy check bonus, etc. for opposed/similar alignments...
It is a penalty, you either sacrifice a full round or suffer a -1 to AC SR and saves. It is helpful for classes like inquisitor or paladin, but it isn't super helpful or detrimental to make those classes inherently better than other classes. It also gains less of a bonus in things like skills and dark vision to off set the double spell like ability. The idea is to create a race that isn't better for a single class or set of classes over another. Some bloodline combo's may be better off with certain classes but the race itself into tailored into a class.
Treat certain traits as other Tiefling or Aasimar traits, like the Duergar Dwarf Traits thing:
Dwarf Traits
Duergar can select any dwarf racial trait that replaces stability. They can select dwarf racial traits that replace the hardy dwarf racial trait by giving up duergar immunities instead.[/url]Good point, I'll add that to my word document for it and word it so it applies to entire bloodlines.
Wait, so if you don't spend a full round at the beginning of every combat, you are effectively rocking -1 AC, SR (who has natural SR?), and -1 saves. This is a very big setback, especially because of the cost of 1 full round. I would say that it's very far from balanced, even if you load the rest of the race up with features.
It's not really off setting, just a 5% chance in all circumstances so its good for a penalty that you can remove and would be wise to remove in fights with bosses that drag on. It's the equivalent of a -2 RP in raw penalties but its also removable and gets more added dynamic if you are playing a class/role that benefits from knowing alignment.
[Edit: The penalty is also per monster and has flavor text putting it in better perspective to lore "An unaware Nephilim cannot determine a perfect strategy to combat it's foes and therefore..."
It's fairly normal for a battle to last about five rounds. Having someone take 20% of all combat actions - on average, obviously varying by group and such - just to negate a penalty does seem a bit harsh.
I've seen them go for much longer and the only requirement is that the nephilim know or think he/she knows the alignment of a target to remove the penalty. It's also only a -1 for that purpose.
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I have read the race creation guide several times and hence why the nephilim only stats to 14RP give or take, assuming the options were limited to base tiefling and Aasimar there would probably be a single, easy to please everyone, stat. However because there are several "spin off" versions of both races in each of their own companion books, it feels like it would be robbing that customization from the player.
The wide customization feel is also intended, while it isn't meant to rob humans of its niche (all of the players in the game I intend to use this in almost never play humans because they are "too bland").
It might be too bland, but the customization made possible by the Blood Of books is why the Tiefling / Aasimar were removed from PFS, it was seen as being too cheese.
It might be too bland, but the customization made possible by the Blood Of books is why the Tiefling / Aasimar were removed from PFS, it was seen as being too cheese.I have read the race creation guide several times and hence why the nephilim only stats to 14RP give or take, assuming the options were limited to base tiefling and Aasimar there would probably be a single, easy to please everyone, stat. However because there are several "spin off" versions of both races in each of their own companion books, it feels like it would be robbing that customization from the player.
The wide customization feel is also intended, while it isn't meant to rob humans of its niche (all of the players in the game I intend to use this in almost never play humans because they are "too bland").
I would agree with their ruling for society if they nerfed 90% of caster builds but they don't so society rulings aren't heralded as the wisest of rulings.
Honestly, I don't see the need, Peri-Blooded Aasimar already encompass "Fallen Angels", thus they already straddle the Celestial/Infernal divide.
So it feels like you're just itching to cherry pick abilities, much more than even Aasimar/Tiefling subtypes allow (which still come in "packages" that will often not be 100% optmized/ideal, if only thru a less useful SLA). And you're doing lots of stuff that goes beyond the ken, like allowing a bonus to THREE abilities (with two receiving penalty), a non-standardly large attack bonus (bigger than standard racial attack bonuses ala Elves, + applying to type especially relevant at high CR, + neither A/T get anything like this in the first place, + neither do full angels/devils/etc), TWO SLAs of the same choices that A/T get one of...
Sorry, call me new but I understood about 30% of that terminology.
A/T?
SLA?
It is cherry pickie, but that's because this will be the only race available to players at the start of game (they may be able to take over npcs of certain races later should a character die, but im limiting them to this at start). I'm not so much looking to create a "here everyone use this as much as you want" race, as one I can use for my own stuff.
Aasimar/Tiefling? Spell-Like Ability?
Probably, I usually see Spell like abilities as SL so that just confused me for a second there.