There again, just to be sure.
When you close a location, summon and encounter the henchman Harvester
QUESTION 1 : Does this happen before the "When closing", between the "When closing" and "When permanently close" or after the "When permanently close"?
On some locations this can be a terrible difference.Now for the fun part, this is what happened to us:
Arueshalae and Alain at location A. Balazar at location B.
Arueshalae encounters villain.
Balazar tries to temp close B.
So he summons and encounters Harvester.
Arueshalae fails check and is moved by Harvester to location B.
Alain succeeds at the check and stays in A.
Now...
When another character at your location would encounter a monster, discard a card; you encounter it instead.
We ruled that A) The villain encounter still will happen even if the succubus somehow isn't really in A (finish what you have started) and B) Alain can encounter the villain instead of Arueshalae even if he is no more at the succubus location - because he is still at the encounter location.
QUESTION 2 : Was it right?QUESTION 3 : And what if Alain was indeed moved to B by the Harvester?
That's my candidate for this week can'o'worms...
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Nahyndrian Mine's During This Scenario text only applies to locations you permanently close, so it doesn't apply when temp closing locations due to encountering the villain:
Temporarily closing a location only prevents the villain from escaping there during this encounter; it does not trigger any of the other effects of closing a location
Beyond that, the sequencing goes like so:
1. When Closing (if applicable)2. Any When Permanently Closed power that says "before closing"
3. Scenario Power
4. Any When Permanently Closed power that says "on closing"
If you didn't find any villains, perform the When Permanently Closed effect: First, apply any effects that say "before closing." Then banish all of the cards from the location deck; it is now closed. Finally, apply any effects that say "on closing" and flip the location card over.
We see in the rulebook, the location is officially closed in between activating "before closing" powers and "on closing" powers. The scenario power would trigger at that time, as that is when the location is actually closed.
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Question 1: After the "When Closing", but your choice of order for it and the Permaclose effect. They happen at the same time so you choose the order, unless they conflict in which case the scenario takes over.
Question 2:
It depends, I can't remember at the moment if temp closes happen before When You Encounter. If they are before, then no, Alain could not take it because the power isn't about where the encounter is. It's about where the character is, and Arushalae was no longer at his location
If temps are part of or after When You Encounter, then you would take the encounter before the move even happens, and where she is at that point is irrelevant because you've already stolen the encounter.
Question 3: This would only make a difference if temps are before you encounter. He was moved with Arushalae, and was still at her location, so he could take it.
See this FAQ. Alain's power doesn't kick in until Arushalae is already gone.
Well Questions 2 and 3 are moot because the scenario power doesn't kick in for temp closing anyway, which is why I didn't address them in my initial post. No henchmen should have been encountered during that villain encounter, so as such the scenario Frencois described should not have existed to begin with. Due to that, I didn't feel the need to entertain the "what ifs" with it :)
As for timing for perma-closes, I have to disagree with Andrew. The ordering is specified by the rulebook, so you don't get to choose -- they do not happen at the same time. The rulebook explicitly states that "before closing" powers happen, then the location is closed, then "on closing" powers happen. Since the scenario power is "When you close a location" that would kick in when the location is closed, which is in between "before closing" and "on closing" powers.
OK thanks you all. So OK we played it wrong, but anyway I appreciate the inputs on how to play it on permaclose.
Btw an easy one before going to bed here in France. It's obvious but goes better if said: do we all agree that if a close location says "discard a card" and you don't have one in hand you cannot close but if a close location says it deals you x damage and you have less cards left (even no card at all) you still close? Idea being it's "impossible" to discard a card if you have none but "possible" to take damage even with no cards.
With that, have a good night.
See this FAQ. Alain's power doesn't kick in until Arushalae is already gone.
Agreed on the timing Hawk, but the question remains can he use it.
Forget the special scenario, just imagine the location asks to summon the Harvester to temp close.
So then, are you saying :
Arueshalae at location A.
Alain at location B.
Arueshalae encounters villain.
Alain tries and succeeds at temp closing B.
So he summons and encounters Harvester.
Arueshalae fails check and is moved by Harvester to location B.
Then if I follow you Alain can now steal the succubus encounter and win the Adventure by defeating the villain.
Wow! temp closing and defeating the villain all during someone else's turn without even having to be where the villain is. That opens a world of strategies. Bring me back scrying and Alahazar.
I'd agree with Andrew there, it's a case of unfortunate wording (including the bringing back of the "before you encounter" wording to describe temp closing). Encountering the villain is currently a sub-step of encountering a villain as-worded by the rulebook. Temp-closing happens during the "hey I flipped over a villain card, wat do" sequence but before you get into the "encountering a card" sequence proper with the villain. "When encountering" effects such as Alain's power happen only during the "encountering a card" sequence and not in the superset "I flipped over a villain card" sequence. This is explicitly in the rulebook, but the naming is unfortunately confusing.
Sequencing goes like so:
1. Flip over Villain
2. Attempt to Temporarily Close Open Locations (Encountering A Villain, p16)
3. Encounter the Villain (Encountering A Villain, p16)
3.1. Apply Any Effects that Happen When You Encounter A Card (Encountering A Card, p10)
...
Despite them both being named encounters, we can see that temp closes happen before "when encountering... " powers. By the time Alain's power trips, he's at the same location as Arue.
Hey folks. Just encountered a very nasty situation and wanted to check if we played it right.
At the nahryndian mine (4-5) we had two locations left. Harvester pit and one more can't remember the name.
Encountered the villian at the other location.. tried to temp close harvester pit. Everyone failed the strength 12 check so got pulled to the pit.
Now per faq, the encounter continues. But since we are all now *not* at the location with the villian, his ability doing d4+1 dmg per card/power played kicks in. So this includes the char that encountered the villian in the first place.
Play weapon.. take dmg. Play item to mitigate dmg, take more dmg, etc...
We won by the skin of our teeth.. barely.. scraped... through.. wow... crazy and great scenario design.. Everyone almost died.. Hands shaking.. phew...
Er, did we play it right?
Nope, although congratulations on beating it in Hard Mode :)
Damage dealt by Hepzamirah is dealt to each character at your location. During the encounter, any character at another location who plays a card or uses a power is dealt 1d4+1 Combat damage.
In order to figure out what "another location" means we need to look elsewhere in that paragraph for context. We see in the first sentence that it specifies "your location", e.g. the location of the character who is encountering the villain (not necessarily the same as the location the villain was encountered). Therefore, "another location" means any location that is not "your location."
Since you were at the Harvester Pit when the encounter officially started (attempting to temp close and therefore moving due to Harvester happens before "During the encounter" powers would kick in), anyone else at the Harvester Pit would therefore be at "your location" and by definition not at "another location" so nobody would be taking any damage by playing cards.
Oh that makes sense. We read 'another location' in reference to the villian instead of the character encountering it..
Damn... Thanks!!