It's not specified in the rules, but I'm playing with a similar problem in my WotW game and I've ruled is that they reform around their onyx gem, which is the focus of their life force.
Personally, I think your ideas are brilliant and I would absolutely allow it. It's balanced because they take an hour to respawn (so you can't just surprise dump an army of undead). I think your acid idea is the best one as it should keep them indefinitely, although I would rule you need to keep the gems separately.
Just and FYI, you are not going to get a definitive answer to this. I'm very well versed on necromancy and undead, and I know this is not covered in the rules anywhere. You're basically going to just get rules interpretations from a bunch of people that are most likely going to vary from person to person.
My answer to your questions: Carry bone dust in a container of acid and the onyx gems in a different container. When you want the undead, pour out the bone dust (or neutralize the acid in some way) and put the onyx gems together with the bone dust.
Do you have the resources for a bag of holding or portable hole?
Also, talk to your GM about a spell to reduce them in size, personal spell research is listed as an option right there in the CRB, look at Reduce Animal for inspiration.
My answer to your questions: Carry bone dust in a container of acid and the onyx gems in a different container. When you want the undead, pour out the bone dust (or neutralize the acid in some way) and put the onyx gems together with the bone dust.
One little problem.
Skeletons: A skeleton can be created only from a mostly intact corpse or skeleton. The corpse must have bones. If a skeleton is made from a corpse, the flesh falls off the bones.
A pile of bone dust is not an intact skeleton.
Irrelevant, since you have already created the skeleton. The Deathless ability allows a Bloody Skeleton to come back even if hit by something like Disintegrate, so this isn't far-fetched at all.
Also, not sure why Carl is talking about the Onyx like it still exists...material components are consumed in the casting of the spell. There is no more onyx, and they don't serve as the core of the undead created per RAW (though that is a neat idea for flavor).
Irrelevant, since you have already created the skeleton. The Deathless ability allows a Bloody Skeleton to come back even if hit by something like Disintegrate, so this isn't far-fetched at all.
Also, not sure why Carl is talking about the Onyx like it still exists...material components are consumed in the casting of the spell. There is no more onyx, and they don't serve as the core of the undead created per RAW (though that is a neat idea for flavor).
It is relevant, because of his mention of onyx. I assumed he was talking about animating them for the first time. Which does make his mentioning of storing the bone dust in acid pointless.
The post isn't clear, and is wrong either way (can't animate bone dust, no onyx needed to bring bloody skeletons back after they are killed).
Irrelevant, since you have already created the skeleton. The Deathless ability allows a Bloody Skeleton to come back even if hit by something like Disintegrate, so this isn't far-fetched at all.
Also, not sure why Carl is talking about the Onyx like it still exists...material components are consumed in the casting of the spell. There is no more onyx, and they don't serve as the core of the undead created per RAW (though that is a neat idea for flavor).
Huh... maybe it's a holdover from a previous version, but we have always said the onyx is burnt out, but serves as the eyes of the undead.
*shrugs* mechanically it affects... nothing.
Did it ever stick around after casting? I swear this was a thing at one point...
It's pretty clear if you read the whole post from start to finish, as well as the OP.
Why don't you just decorate them with mint or flowers, maybe give them a bath before heading into town. honestly if necromancers would just clean stuff up and invest in some perfume they wouldn't get such a bad rap.
It's pretty clear if you read the whole post from start to finish, as well as the OP.
If you are responding to me, it isn't clear if previous versions did this.
If you aren't responding to me, sorry to waste your time.
In WotW, I have my skellies dressed like nuns who've taken a vow of silence. Now they can follow around my oracle and look perfectly normal while wearing full body clothing in a tight group and not speaking.
Why don't you just decorate them with mint or flowers, maybe give them a bath before heading into town. honestly if necromancers would just clean stuff up and invest in some perfume they wouldn't get such a bad rap.
Or wrap them in bandages, stuff them with potpourri and throw heavy cloaks over them. Get neat facemasks as well.
I guess the fact they constantly drip gore is a problem...
This is something I've always stuck with 3.5 on, the onyx gems staying as a focus that is (however I rule that the gems are destroyed when the undead is). It's a houserule though.
As per Rynjin's point, my solution would still work but actually be simpler because you wouldn't need to hold onto the onyx gems. Carry the bone dust in acid, pour it out when you need them to regenerate. Doesn't work for animating them originally but should work just fine for regenerating them.
This is something I've always stuck with 3.5 on, the onyx gems staying as a focus that is (however I rule that the gems are destroyed when the undead is). It's a houserule though.
As per Rynjin's point, my solution would still work but actually be simpler because you wouldn't need to hold onto the onyx gems. Carry the bone dust in acid, pour it out when you need them to regenerate. Doesn't work for animating them originally but should work just fine for regenerating them.
That sounds messy and potentially expensive (it adds up over time!)
I like portable holes. :D
Into the Portable Hole they go.
Before you can affort one, i'd dress them up as mute servants. And try to get some non-stinky ones.
That would be an interesting idea, a flask of acid is 1 lbs and costs 10 GP at higher levels 10 GP is nothing.
What happens if you use Restore Corpse on a Bloody Skeleton?
What happens if you use Restore Corpse on a Bloody Skeleton?
Dunno 'bout RAW, but I'd rule they became Bloody Zombies ... this adds HD, so maybe not in your best interest.
The target of the Restore Corpse spell is "corpse touched". A skeleton is not a corpse, it is an undead.
The target of the Restore Corpse spell is "corpse touched". A skeleton is not a corpse, it is an undead.
Well, just go ahead and rain on the Necromancer's fun why don'tcha. ;)
Serious note: yeah, that definitely doesn't work. le sigh
Hmm does that mean Gentle Repose cannot be used on Undead?
Do we have a FAQ or ruling on Corpse being different then Undead, as most mention them being corpses.
Is this the all poodles are dogs but not all dogs are poodles thing?
Hmm does that mean Gentle Repose cannot be used on Undead?
Do we have a FAQ or ruling on Corpse being different then Undead, as most mention them being corpses.Is this the all poodles are dogs but not all dogs are poodles thing?
I would allow the spell to work... I mean, who cares? ;)
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I'd allow it .. though it would be funny to see the PC hacking away at his skeletons as he approaches the town. I am not sure about the acid to keep it from reforming, since how do you get the acid off? If it's powder there'd be no way. If it's just smashed up bones you could wash them. Maybe smash them up and throw them in a bag of holding.
There is the Fleshy Facade spell:
Fleshy Facade
it does not work on skeletons, but maybe your DM can allow you to research a higher level one that will, or that will only allow a plus on disguise.
I like the nuns with habits idea, such as Pharasmin nuns who have taken a vow of silence. Pretend they are from the Monastery of the Veil, people know about them and will not question it, but it will get you in trouble if you run into any of them, since they are not exactly what they seem. This could help the DM with plot hooks :)
I don't think it would be unreasonable to allow those spells to work, and as a DM more likely than not I would allow it (after reading up on the abilities and making sure the interactions aren't overpowered).
I think this would allow you to have them without spooking the villagers and what not. For the Acid I could see you throwing the vial of acid and it breaking, the acid drips off and they begin to reform.
Of course reducing them to powder or bits of bones would be the hard part.
One little problem.
Skeletons: A skeleton can be created only from a mostly intact corpse or skeleton. The corpse must have bones. If a skeleton is made from a corpse, the flesh falls off the bones.A pile of bone dust is not an intact skeleton.I am sorry if I was unclear (althought I thought I wasn't since the post is named after the ability that makes them return to unlife), but what I mean is:
-You make a Bloody Skeleton
-Bloody Skeletons return to unlife after being slained.
-My idea is to slain them myself, and keep the remains inside a little cage with acid inside.
-One hour later they will return to unlife at 1 hit point. The acid will kill them on the first round. One hour later will happen the same thing.
-This way I can have little boxes with my (previously animated and already under my controll) skeleton remains. Each box, one corpse.
-I can now go into towns without caring about my undead pissing off the villagers, or keeping them outside and coming back for them later.
-Whenever I pressume I might be needing an undead, I can spill the acid into another jar and let the remains with the box open. In one hour time he will be mine to controll again.
The post isn't clear, and is wrong either way (can't animate bone dust, no onyx needed to bring bloody skeletons back after they are killed).The onyx thing is a houserule that Carl (May I call you Carl?) uses on his games. I beleive it is appealing and adds some flavour. It adds even more flavour after I saw somewhere that someone had her onyx stones carved in little skulls. the bigger the onyx skull, the bigger its price.
It is not like you can reuse it later (the stone I mean), but instead of beeing consumed when the spell is casted, it stays with the skeleton until it dies.
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The reason I mentioned this on the Rules Questions section, is because I don't know if the skeleton is reborn from its remains, or wherever he was slained.
I...
I would say they return from their remains. The idea of burning a BS to charred ash and sticking it into a 1lbs Acid Flask is a good idea, 1 lbs of acid is a large vial of acid and could keep the ash from reforming. Till you pour out the acid or toss the flask and break it. Heck might be good for a baddie at the entrance of his lair. The BBEG has vials of acid overhead and the PCs think they are so cool they dodged them all... only to be flanked later by the BS they didn't know where reforming behind them.
Carl is fine haha.
Except that idea doesn't work because it takes them an hour to reform.
Carl is fine haha.
Except that idea doesn't work because it takes them an hour to reform.
If you are crafting the dungeon you could easily make that take an hour. Also you could say this area is being filled with negative energy used to heal undead not harm the living. So when they are given that 1 HP they would be healed up.
No, it takes them an hour to originally reform at which point they have 1 hp. You can't throw the acid flask for "instant skeletons".
No, it takes them an hour to originally reform at which point they have 1 hp. You can't throw the acid flask for "instant skeletons".
I know that. I meant like you could throw them out and just say "Hey we wait for them to form." or have them released in an area of negative energy 1 hour later they would be healed up to be worth fighting.
Considering it takes them an hour to reform and then they have fast healing as soon as they are formed, they're usually ready half a minute later. 5 rounds is pretty insignificant compared to an hour.
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This is something I've always stuck with 3.5 on, the onyx gems staying as a focus that is (however I rule that the gems are destroyed when the undead is). It's a houserule though.
As per Rynjin's point, my solution would still work but actually be simpler because you wouldn't need to hold onto the onyx gems. Carry the bone dust in acid, pour it out when you need them to regenerate. Doesn't work for animating them originally but should work just fine for regenerating them.
Animate Dead
Components V, S, M (an onyx gem worth at least 25 gp per Hit Die of the undead)
Component, not focus, so RAW it is destroyed during the casting.
Deathless (Su): A bloody skeleton is destroyed when reduced to 0 hit points, but it returns to unlife 1 hour later at 1 hit point, allowing its fast healing thereafter to resume healing it. A bloody skeleton can be permanently destroyed if it is destroyed by positive energy, if it is reduced to 0 hit points in the area of a bless or hallow spell, or if its remains are sprinkled with a vial of holy water.
From the bolded part I would say they reform from their remains.
Bloody SkeletonA bloody skeleton is coated in a slick layer of blood and gore infused with negative energy. This gore allows the skeleton to reform and heal itself. In addition to the changes for the skeleton template, make the following adjustments to the base creature.
Most of the suggested methods of prettying them up won't work. A clean skeleton can be prettied or disguised in several ways, one that is constantly "coated in a slick layer of blood and gore" is way more difficult to manage.
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have them set up a 'camp' outside town and use illusion spells on them to make them appear...not undead just not someone to careless approach for social. You have 3rd level spells by the time you start making those puppies.
Alternately dress them in heavy armor with full helms.
Good point on the layer of blood/gore btw.
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Just say it's a skin condition.
Component, not focus, so RAW it is destroyed during the casting.
Yes, I know. We went over this several posts above.
From the bolded part I would say they reform from their remains.
Yes? I agree with that, what's the point you're trying to make?
The Daywalker spell may come in handy
Make a ring of Constant Duration for 45K
If it's not specifically listed in the permanency spell, you will have to ask for DM permission to permanency it.
What's with all the trouble over this?
Why not just tell them to stand out there, say, 10 minutes away from town? Make them climb up a Rope Trick if you're worried about someone discovering them, or just make them lie down and play dead and not to even move a muscle (lol) until you return - if someone sees that they'll just think a horrible murder happened.
Then, if you need them, they're only 10 minutes away instead of a whole hour wait. No acid, no cages, no little boxes, no shenanigans.
Or, just be an evil badass and walk them into town. If the villagers don't like it, tough. Tell them to shut up or they might make you angry, and they won't like you when you're angry... Or tell them they they're welcome to lodge a complaint, and your bloody skeletons ARE your complaint department. You can even use your bloody skeletons as a negotiating tactic - inform the blacksmith that Bloody Fred and Bloody Carl just simply insist that he lower his prices...
As long as you don't do anything illegal, like have your skeletons murder people, or stop little old ladies from crossing the street, then the law can't really get too upset - you're a law abiding tourist just passing through and these bloody servants of yours were former assassins that tried to kill you so you thought it only fair to "hire" them to work for you now.
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Component, not focus, so RAW it is destroyed during the casting.Yes, I know. We went over this several posts above.
From the bolded part I would say they reform from their remains.Yes? I agree with that, what's the point you're trying to make?
"Not from the gem."
And the OP question was:
So, how does exactly Deathless ability work? It says that they return to unlife 1 hour later, but where? In the same spot they were killed? From their remains? What if there aren't any remain?If the answer is the remains, I thought about killing them, making bone powder, and then storing the bone powder into really hard cages. If it weren't to work, I could disolve the powder in acid, so when they return to unlife at 1 hit point, they die again automatically.
and I answered to that.
Portable hole is the answer.
What's with all the trouble over this?
Why not just tell them to stand out there, say, 10 minutes away from town? Make them climb up a Rope Trick if you're worried about someone discovering them, or just make them lie down and play dead and not to even move a muscle (lol) until you return - if someone sees that they'll just think a horrible murder happened.
Then, if you need them, they're only 10 minutes away instead of a whole hour wait. No acid, no cages, no little boxes, no shenanigans.
Or, just be an evil badass and walk them into town. If the villagers don't like it, tough. Tell them to shut up or they might make you angry, and they won't like you when you're angry... Or tell them they they're welcome to lodge a complaint, and your bloody skeletons ARE your complaint department. You can even use your bloody skeletons as a negotiating tactic - inform the blacksmith that Bloody Fred and Bloody Carl just simply insist that he lower his prices...
As long as you don't do anything illegal, like have your skeletons murder people, or stop little old ladies from crossing the street, then the law can't really get too upset - you're a law abiding tourist just passing through and these bloody servants of yours were former assassins that tried to kill you so you thought it only fair to "hire" them to work for you now.
I suppose implied threat of violence/murder is law-abiding and desecration of the dead is legal?
I mean, you do usually literally cast desecrate to get the skeletons.
Every casting of the spell is witnessed? Citation please.