This is an odd scenario that popped up yesterday.
Calm talks with the BBEG are going on and Player 1 fails a bluff check creating suspicion. BBEG readies action to cast hold person if Player 1 does anything provocative (still out of combat).
Player 1 begins casting (spell is irrelevant at this point but it was create pit). BBEG casts Hold Person as a counter. Player fails will save and uses immediate action to cast Emergency Force Sphere.
My questions about this are:
1. Since he failed the will wouldn't that have prevented his ability to do the Immediate Action?
2. Can you use an immediate action in this way since he was already focused on casting a different spell?
3. What exactly should/would have transpired in this situation?
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I'm pretty sure this is mostly RAW, although the last bit is probably debatable.
Readied actions interrupt the action that triggers them but they technically go before that action, which is why you then move that guy's initiative to same initiative as the guy who triggered him but he goes first.
This means the Hold Person is technically cast BEFORE the PC begins casting Create Pit. I know, it makes no sense because casting the pit is what triggered the readied action so logically the pit is already being cast, so if the readied action goes before he starts casting the pit, how could the PC trigger the readied action if he hasn't started casting yet? But that's how it works.
That said, the action that triggers a readied action cannot be changed. If it were possible, then you could NEVER counter a spell because the initial caster could say "Ah, you readied an action and hit me, now I might lose my spell, so I change my plan and DON'T cast a spell". The rules don't allow this. Readied actions that damage a caster can make him lose his spell and readied counterspells can make him lose his spell, so he has no choice to do something else, which means he must still cast that spell. However, technically, since the Readied Action goes first, the interrupted caster has not started casting yet.
Therefore we currently have the NPC casting Hold Person and the PC is NOT YET casting Create Pit, but he will.
Immediate actions can be used ANY time (according to the RAW). I would say that "any" includes before, during, and after the actions your opponent might be taking. Which means I have no RAW argument that would prevent this wizard from casting his Sphere during his enemy's casting of Hold Person, which means the Sphere is put in place before the Hold Person can affect him. He doesn't interrupt the Hold Person; it still gets cast, but he is now an ineligible target because Hold Person cannot penetrate his sphere.
So the NPC begins casting Hold Person, the PC casts the Sphere as an Immediate Action, the NPC finishes casting Hold Person and must select a target but cannot select the PC inside the Sphere (any other target is fair game), and then the PC in the Sphere casts his Pit spell uninterrupted and must select for it inside his sphere.
That last bit will be funny.
I don't know of any rules that allow someone to complete a spell and then ignore the targeting requirements. A lenient GM could say "Well, if you don't pick the target, the spell dissipates harmlessly, wasted for no effect". The closes rule I can find to this is the following from the Magic section: "If you ever try to cast a spell in conditions where the characteristics of the spell cannot be made to conform, the casting fails and the spell is wasted."
However, the characteristics of the spell CAN be made to conform by targeting the ground inside the Sphere, so that rule doesn't apply. So I would say the Pit spell must be cast on the ground the PC is standing on and he falls into his own pit.
Magic is tricky; you better be sure of your targets when you bring magic into the world or you might end up being your own target.
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I feel like I'm in a game of Magic: The Gathering.
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Technically, as soon as BBEG readied an action, you would have been in combat and it would be time to roll initiative. Readying an Action is a standard action that can only be done in combat.
This is true, but it really changes nothing. It just wastes time at the table.
Option A:
Player1: I try to Bluff this guy.
GM: The NPC seems to sense your motive; he keeps talking.
Player1: I cast a Pit under him. Surprise!
GM: The NPC was suspicious and had readied an action, he begins casting something.
Player1: I cast Emergency Energy Sphere.
GM: Done. OK, let's resolve the NPC's spell, then everyone roll Initiative...
Option B:
Player1: I try to Bluff this guy.
GM: NPC seems to sense your motive. Everyone roll Initiative.
Player 2: Why? Sense Motive doesn't cause a combat.
GM: I know, but everyone has to roll Initiative anyway.
Player3: 24
Player4: 18
Player2: 15
Player1: 13
GM: OK, Player3, what do you do?
Player3: Is anything happening?
GM: No, the NPC is still talking.
Player3: I guess I keep listening.
GM: OK. Player 4, what do you do?
Player4: Uh, I keep listening too.
GM: Player2?
Player2: I guess I keep listening too.
GM: Player1, are you listening too?
Player1: No, are you kidding? I'm the disruptive CN d00d. I'm just playing my toon, man, but he's CN, so I gotta trash your narrative. I can't help it, it's what my guy would do. I cast Pit under him. Surprise!
GM: The NPC was suspicious and had readied an action, he begins casting something.
Player1: I cast Emergency Energy Sphere.
GM: Done. OK, let's resolve the NPC's spell...
The second way takes much longer and doesn't change anything that happened.
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If the NPC goes after PC on the first turn he can't ready the action to hold person. This is why it is important to roll initiative as soon as the bad guy tried to ready an action (he doesn't get to actually ready the action yet until his turn in combat.) Keep in mind being in turn order doesn't mean they have to fight and they can easily keep talking if they choose to.
There aren't too many ways to attack someone without them being able to respond. The main way I know is the Betrayer feat which lets you attack them after a successful diplomacy roll.
To respond, the NPC would have started initiative with the readied action in the example where initiative is considered.
The entire thing was abbreviated to keep things moving along, as DM_Blake showed, since only the player and the BBEG were able to act at this point.
Since the Hold Person would then have priority due to the readied action and the mage casting create pit has already committed to that action. Would they have the option to stop that action in order to cast the sphere though?
Since the Hold Person would then have priority due to the readied action and the mage casting create pit has already committed to that action. Would they have the option to stop that action in order to cast the sphere though?
As I mentioned in my first post, the readied Hold Person happens in its own action BEFORE the action in which the PC even starts casting his Pit spell. Based on the fact that he hasn't even started casting his Pit, the PC has no conflict when he tries to cast his Sphere as an Immediate action during that Readied Action.
It's a time-paradox: Casting the Pit spell triggers the readied action, so he must be casting it. But the readied action goes before the trigger action, so the NPC takes his readied action before the PC begins casting the Pit spell that triggered it. The PC then casts a Sphere to block the NPC's spell before he begins casting his Pit spell and, technically, before he triggers that readied action by casting his Pit spell. So how could there even be a readied action if the trigger has not happened yet?
Logically, there could not be.
But this is a game where we have rules that don't always follow logic. When the two are incompatible, use the rules, not logic, to resolve the incompatibility.
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To respond, the NPC would have started initiative with the readied action in the example where initiative is considered.
The entire thing was abbreviated to keep things moving along, as DM_Blake showed, since only the player and the BBEG were able to act at this point.
The entire combat plays out differently depending on who wins initiative though.
PC is first. They cast create pit on the enemy. The enemy hasn't acted yet and must make his save vs the spell.
Enemy is first. They ready an action to hold person. PC then casts create pit, and the enemy can now use their action to hold person. The PC is no longer flatfooted and may use an immediate action to emergency forcesphere but I believe they lose the create pit they were casting.
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Actually the rules cover this and there is no time paradox here.
If the triggered action is part of another character's activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action.
So the PC is being interrupted, he would normally continue to cast create pit (he doesn't have a choice he has to cast the spell.) If he uses emergency forcesphere he has already used his spell slot but can no longer continue casting his create pit which he stopped concentration on.
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Actually the rules cover this and there is no time paradox here.
If the triggered action is part of another character's activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action.
So the PC is being interrupted, he would normally continue to cast create pit (he doesn't have a choice he has to cast the spell.) If he uses emergency forcesphere he has already used his spell slot but can no longer continue casting his create pit which he stopped concentration on.
That's the same conclusion that DM_Blake came to - you just said it differently. He was just pointing out the oddness of being able to use an immediate action while committed to Create Pit.
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That's the same conclusion that DM_Blake came to - you just said it differently. He was just pointing out the oddness of being able to use an immediate action while committed to Create Pit.Actually the rules cover this and there is no time paradox here.
If the triggered action is part of another character's activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action.
So the PC is being interrupted, he would normally continue to cast create pit (he doesn't have a choice he has to cast the spell.) If he uses emergency forcesphere he has already used his spell slot but can no longer continue casting his create pit which he stopped concentration on.
I think he meant the player hadn't even started casting create pit though. The player has started casting the spell and is being interrupted, and then also losing the spell when they cast a new spell after being interrupted.
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No, it doesn't play out differently.
First, telling a player to roll initiative, basically removes any semblance of a reasonable resolution to a situation. Forcing that initiative roll would have caused combat to happen sooner, and possibly unnecessarily.
Next, since the action that would have started combat would be the readied action as a standard, the entire action could would have been part of the surprise round. The player at that point had not actually done anything to initiate combat, but his actions were causing the NPC to be cautious. He, the player, for all intents and purposes would have been flatfooted and unable to act in the surprise round. Especially since readying an action doesn't in any telegraph intent, and the PC's Sense Motive rolls were abysmal.
So with the action readied the player then in the first round, assuming he wins initiative, casts and the readied action still occurs.
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No, it doesn't play out differently.
First, telling a player to roll initiative, basically removes any semblance of a reasonable resolution to a situation. Forcing that initiative roll would have caused combat to happen sooner, and possibly unnecessarily.
Next, since the action that would have started combat would be the readied action as a standard, the entire action could would have been part of the surprise round. The player at that point had not actually done anything to initiate combat, but his actions were causing the NPC to be cautious. He, the player, for all intents and purposes would have been flatfooted and unable to act in the surprise round. Especially since readying an action doesn't in any telegraph intent, and the PC's Sense Motive rolls were abysmal.
So with the action readied the player then in the first round, assuming he wins initiative, casts and the readied action still occurs.
Your mistake is thinking there is a surprise round. There isn't. They both know the enemy is there. You cannot act by saying "I'm going to do something before they say they are." The game doesn't work like that.
Telling the players initiative has started doesn't mean they have to attack. They can easily continue talking if they wanted to and so could the enemy.
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The entire combat plays out differently depending on who wins initiative though.
Except the NPC gets the surprise round.
He's the ONLY one initiating combat because this combat started when the NPC readied an action.
By way of comparison, suppose it goes a little differently than the OP's scenario. Suppose the NPC was talking along and suddenly, without warning, stabs a PC in the face. No bluff check, no pit spell, just a naughty NPC being bad. That's his surprise round, right?It must be, or else it goes like this:
GM: The NPC is just blathering on and on. Nothing happens, but everyone roll Initiative.
Player2: Why? What happened to put is into a combat.
GM: Nothing.
Player4: So why are we rolling Initiative if nothing happened?
GM: Uh, well, no reason really. You just, uh, feel like you need to.
Player1: I didn't do it this time, really! I didn't even do my CN shtick to ruin the GM's narrative this time.
Player3: So are we in combat or not?
GM: Roll Initiative.
Player2: Well, if we didn't start a fight but we're in combat anyway, then I guess the NPC is doing something we can't see. I guess he's going to surprise us.
GM: Uh, no, no, it's, well, um, nothing like that. Just roll Initiative.
Player3: So you want us to roll Initiative even though there's no fight, but we know there will be, but we have to pretend there won't be? That makes no sense!
GM: I know, but everyone has to roll Initiative anyway.
Player3: 24
Player4: 18
Player2: 15
Player1: 13
GM: OK, Player3, what do you do?
Player3: Is anything happening?
GM: No, the NPC is still talking.
Player3: I guess I keep listening.
GM: OK. Player 4, what do you do?
Player4: Uh, I keep listening too.
GM: Player2?
Player2: I guess I keep listening too.
GM: Player1, are you listening too?
Player1: Uh huh. So what happens?
GM: Aha! The NPC surprises you all! On Initiative count 10 he stabs PC1 in the face!
Player1: Yeah, totally didn't see that coming...
Or it could even go worse if the players start metagaming and realize that the start of combat means the NPC is going to do something naughty so they attack him first, even though they were NOT going to do that in the first place - the Initiative roll changed their mind.
To avoid all the above silliness, the surprise stab in the face MUST BE the surprise round, THEN we roll for initiative.
And if that's true, then in the OP's scenario, the NPC readying an action must be his surprise round and now his action is readied BEFORE rolling initiative for round 1.
Any other interpretation makes the whole thing even less sensible and even less playable.
Telling my players Initiative has started without any aggressive action taking place, would mean they would attack.
They do both know they are there, but neither is exhibiting aggression. Even the readied action is not aggressive until it is perceived, which it wasn't. This was an open non-aggressive discussion. No one perceived the BBEG as a threat and the BBEG until the sense motive check was not even concerned about the PC behavior.
This is essentially Han (BBEG) shooting Greedo (PC).
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Suppose the NPC was talking along and suddenly, without warning, stabs a PC in the face. No bluff check, no pit spell, just a naughty NPC being bad. That's his surprise round, right?
He can't do that. He cannot do something without starting combat. This is what the flatfooted condition is for. If he beats the party on initiative he takes out his dagger and stabs the PC against his flatfooted AC.
If the party was unaware of his presence he would get a surprise round action because they had no idea he was there.
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Suppose the NPC was talking along and suddenly, without warning, stabs a PC in the face. No bluff check, no pit spell, just a naughty NPC being bad. That's his surprise round, right?He can't do that. He cannot do something without starting combat.
So then this scenario makes sense to you:
GM: You meet a pleasant looking peasant woman on the road. She starts talking to you about the weather.
Players: We chat with her, maybe ask her if she's heard any rumors.
GM: Roll Initiative.
Player1: Why? What happened?
GM: Nothing. Just roll.
Player3: 24
Player4: 18
Player2: 15
Player1: 13
GM: OK, Player3, what do you do?
Player3: We're in combat?
GM: You must be, you rolled Initiative. That means combat.
Player3: Well, we're in combat and we didn't start it. That means this peasant woman must be attacking us so I stab her.
Player4: Me too, I stab her.
Player2: Yep, I cast Acid Arrow on her.
Player1: And I stab her.
GM: Uh, OK, she's dead.
Player4: So, guys, why did we kill this woman?
Player3: Who knows? Suddenly we were in combat and she was the only target.
Player2: It was our only choice. Who knows, she might have had a deadly SLA she was about to use. She might have killed one of us if she rolled higher initiative.
Player1: Who cares, let's loot her and get our XP.
GM: Dangit! Next time I want NPC to surprise the players with an unexpected attack, I need to invest a bunch of feats, traits, and class abilities into Initiative bonuses so they might actually get to attack once in the combat that they start.
Are you really OK with a character, NPC or otherwise, being the one to start combat but then never even get to take any actions in that combat round just because of initiative rolls?
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How does Player1 grab for his spell component pouch and start chanting if he is going last in the Initiative order?
How is Player1 flat-footed when HE is the one who started the fight?
And how did everyone get to act in the surprise round if they were all just chatting away when none of them knew Player1 was going to start the fight?
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Lirya explained this perfectly. Basically someone started to do something to trigger combat. The same is true in your random woman on the road example. If you are making them roll initiative one of the parties started to do SOMETHING to trigger the combat. This could be reaching for a weapon, going to cast a spell, or anything else you can think of which would call for a combat.. but they didn't complete it yet.
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How does Player1 grab for his spell component pouch and start chanting if he is going last in the Initiative order?
How is Player1 flat-footed when HE is the one who started the fight?
And how did everyone get to act in the surprise round if they were all just chatting away when none of them knew Player1 was going to start the fight?
1. Think of this situation like a gunfight. Both people know the other can draw at any time. You go to start the fight but you are too slow and he shoots you first. Even though you intended to beat him.. you didn't.
2. Same reason. He thought to start the fight but wasn't as prepared as other people in the room who were more ready for combat (as determined by initiative.)
3. Nobody acted in the surprise round. Everyone was aware of each other. Stop creating a surprise round where none exists it's causing the confusion.
You seem to get caught up on the "everyone is aware" portion of the surprise round description while completely ignoring the "opponent" portion of the description.
No one was treating this BBEG as an opponent. They are not even aware that this was an opponent as characters, because they were meta-gaming the hell out of this. The only player that could act aggressively (due to the fact that the others were under the effects of calm person) is this particular player. Due to the overall tone though he was not.
However his actions and demeanor suggested that he was going to do something. There is no way to handle that without introducing the meta of "You are now in initiative" which breaks the entire situation into a mad rush that DM_Blake has described with his peasant girl example.
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DM_Blake, I think the issue I have with your "silly" narratives is that they don't have to be silly. The person starting combat is not always the one who goes first - that's why there is an initiative roll. Your woman on the side of the road decides to attack someone - if she loses initiative, then as she goes for her weapon/spell/whatever, one of her opponents reacts faster.
You see this sort of things all the time in movies, usually as a demonstration of just how competent the hero or BBEG is - someone goes for their weapon and is just outclassed and their foe gets the drop on them.
But yes, if you want to get the jump on somebody, especially on an entire group, you'd better either strike when they're not looking or invest heavily on being the fastest sword in the west.
In the original example, I would not call for an initiative roll until the first hostile action - which would be the attempt to cast the pit spell. Then I would call for initiative as hostile action ahs started, even though the pit-caster may end up last - he started the fight but everyone else reacted faster than he could imagine.
Stop creating a surprise round where none exists it's causing the confusion.
Yessir. I mean, no sir.
There IS a surprise round here.
You seem to get caught up on the "everyone is aware" portion of the surprise round description while completely ignoring the "opponent" portion of the description.
Quite correct.
The SRD says:
If some but not all of the combatants are aware of their opponents,
When people are just standing there talking, they are not "combatants" and they certainly are not aware of any "opponents".
If some assassin sneaks up through the bushes, unspotted, and takes a shot at one of the talkers, then clearly they were unaware of that opponent and there is a surprise round. Obviously.
But if one of the talkers decides to suddenly attack the other one, without warning, then that other talker is unaware that he even has an opponent and so is clearly, by the rules, "unaware of his opponent" at therefore will be surprised while the attacker gets a surprise round.
In short, there are more possibilities that fall under the definition of "unaware of their opponents" than the simple obvious case of not having seen them.
DM_Blake, I think the issue I have with your "silly" narratives is that they don't have to be silly. The person starting combat is not always the one who goes first - that's why there is an initiative roll. Your woman on the side of the road decides to attack someone - if she loses initiative, then as she goes for her weapon/spell/whatever, one of her opponents reacts faster.
Maybe. But that's harder to explain if she's just using an SLA. No components, no gestures, no incantation, nothing to "go for". What exactly are they reacting to?
There actually is a satisfactory answer. See below.
You see this sort of things all the time in movies, usually as a demonstration of just how competent the hero or BBEG is - someone goes for their weapon and is just outclassed and their foe gets the drop on them.
Thematically, I don't think very many of those movies go like "I'll wait for him to draw his weapon and begin his attack and then I'll draw my weapon and kill him before he completes his attack because I'm just that awesomesauce". (it's a word now, thanks OED!)
Much more likely, that hero made a Sense Motive check to detect the attack (or more accurately, to detect the intent) even before the bad guy went for his weapon. Han really did shoot first, before the ret-con, and that was OK because he made his Sense Motive roll and Greedo was obviously just going to kill him. So Han got the surprise round. Not because his reflexes were faster than a blaster, but because his Sense Motive gave him surprise. And possibly because his Bluff kept Greedo from seeing Han draw his own blaster under the table.
But yes, if you want to get the jump on somebody, especially on an entire group, you'd better either strike when they're not looking or invest heavily on being the fastest sword in the west.
Or just have a gaze attack. Or a breath weapon. Or any SLA. Except by your interpretation, none of these are ever capable of getting the drop on anyone because that still requires a ton of luck. And since PCs do invest heavily in initiative, then every monster is just screwed - unless you modify your polymorphed dragon's stats, it's never going to have close to the Initiative modifier of a whole group of PCs.
In the original example, I would not call for an initiative roll until the first hostile action - which would be the attempt to cast the pit spell. Then I would call for initiative as hostile action ahs started, even though the pit-caster may end up last - he started the fight but everyone else reacted faster than he could imagine.
By that interpretation, the NPC was doomed. He saw the PC try to bluff him, successfully sensed the motive, knew he was in grave danger, but then said "Oh well, in this universe I cannot do anything about it, I just have to keep chatting until I get ganked."
I suppose he could have just attacked, but apparently he was trying for a diplomatic solution - one that by your interpretation completely doomed him to death.
Also, by that interpretation, the guy casting the Pit spell my have doomed himself to death. He's going to pick a fight, a surprise attack really, but with no reasonable guarantee that he is going to surprise anyone at all - he could even start this fight and then end up being killed while he's still flat-footed.
And that makes no sense at all - whoever starts the fight should have no chance of being flat-footed while everyone else finishes the fight around him.
Thankfully, we have surprise rounds to prevent this nonsense. And Sense Motive checks to determine if we can sense hostile intent in time to react in those surprise rounds.
If only Player1 and BBEG are aware that hostility would soon be initiated, then they get to roll initiative to determine who goes first. This is a surprise round if there are other people present who are surprised, or a normal round if nobody is surprised. The call for initiative happens as soon as one of them declares a hostile action (Player1 declaring that he casts Create Pit), and the one of them that wins initiative casts his spell first, the other is flat-footed (because he reacted slower) and cannot perform immediate actions until it is his turn.
This ignores the fact that the NPC readied an action.
This discussion started with the statement that readying an action requires taking an action which can only be done in-combat during "rounds". (I personally disagree which was the point of my first post).
But if we're going to run with that, then shouldn't the combat start with the NPC readying his Hold Person spell? He made his Sense Motive check, he knew he was in danger of an attack. Are his only choices at this point to either wait to to die or abandon diplomacy and make the first attack himself? There is NO option to ready an action against the attack he knows is imminent while still trying for diplomacy?
The readying of the action to counter Player 1 happened (if measured in rounds, do to the over a minute of discussions that happened after the BBEG became suspicious) 15 rounds before the player acted aggressively. Saying that the player gets a chance for priority in that situation literally makes no sense.
Saying that readying an action that displays no intent, combined with the fact that no sense motive checks were made to even gleam that the BBEG might be preparing something, is an aggressive action that would start combat also doesn't make sense.
Treating the readied action as a silent surprise round and the aggressive action of the player as the first consequential action in initiative is the only thing that does make sense.
That is true but then, as I said, the BBEG's surprise round is the readied action. Everything that transpires for the next 15 rounds is just filler as he is using a free action to talk and then re-readying his action.
The PC's do not need to be aware of Initiative at this point (as it will only affect their action and nothing overtly hostile has happened to clue them into the situation), because regardless of what happens, he isn't acting until the player starts casting. At that point the readied action takes precedence (since it was readied before the player's turn).
As you can see, a readied action changes your initiative. And you cannot change your initiative before you have an initiative.
That's irrelevant.
If you ready an action "If that suspicious guy attacks me I will cast Hold Person on him" and then when that guy attacks, HE rolls initiative and gets a number that tells him when (in the surprise round) he can attack. That's his initiative and it is (now) also yours - you'll go on the same initiative count and act immediately ahead of him, in the surprise round because you were ready.
Theoretically, you can easily do this without ever rolling your own initiative and it still works - the guy who triggers your readied action is (in effect) rolling initiative for both of you.
The only real argument against this is that readying an action requires you to use a Standard action which you don't have unless you are already acting in an initiative order within a combat. I disagree on this point but I understand why others agree with it.
As you can see, a readied action changes your initiative. And you cannot change your initiative before you have an initiative.
Readying an action doesn't require or change initiative -- only the readied action going off affects initiative. So yes, by the time the action triggers, you're rolling initiative, but it's not at all necessary before then.
A reading an action is also a combat action.
I think it is entirely reasonable that in general moving from a non-combat stance to a combat stance is just as hostile/combat initiating etc. as most other things.
Consider this: if the readied action was bracing a spear against a possible charge we would all realize that the players would be aware of a readied action being takes. The rules don't particularly mention 'awareness' of this, but are general understanding of what bracing a spear means gives us that knowledge. We don't have really a general understanding of what reading a spell looks like, although grabing a component, getting your fingers in position, perhaps even stopping talking so you are ready to say your magic words might all be reasonable. In any case, there doesn't seem to be a good, balanced reason to treat it differently than our readied spear.
Basically, making a combat action is making a combat action. It should be fairly obvious, at least that the person has moved into a combat stance, and trying to do so will provoke general rolling of initiative.
If the dude already rolled his save for Hold Person, that means the spell hit and he was affected. I'm not sure I would allow the casting of Wall of Force after the fact.
@ Lirya, if everyone readies an action, then everyone is prepared for the combat and there is no surprise round. Whoever goes first goes first.
If even one person isn't prepared, then there is a surprise round that includes everyone but them. In the surprise round, everyone who is ready scatters or draws a weapon or whatever, and then normal rounds happen. Either way, initiative still happens in initiative order.
I understand what you're afraid of. A chain, where one person attacks and then everyone else takes their readied actions and hits them before their action really happens. But if you have one surprise round before the action happens and give everyone their one action in the surprise round, everyone has to ready an action to respond, cast a spell, or attack someone with their bare hands, or attack with a weapon that they already had out.
Say that there is not a surprise round because everyone is aware.
Well then, that's a normal combat. If the person who wins initiative wants to ready an action instead of just taking their attacks(s) right away, that's their prerogative.
Take a situation where everyone spent their first round of combat readying an action to attack someone who attacks (first of all, I'd only allow any given combatant to designate one foe that they ready against). Well it's a stalemate, who ever decides to attack first is going to eat attacks from everyone who readied against them. The only good way out of that situation is to do something other than attack, like 5 foot step, but that's what they get for all readying actions instead of attacking right off the bat like it would be smart to do when you win initiative.
There is no surprise round if you know the combatant is there. You can still be flat-footed, and that is all the jump the attacker gets on you.
Combat starts when any attack action is made. You cannot ready actions outside of combat. If you could, everyone would at the onset of every encounter. When going to pay the bar tab, "I ready an action to kill the barkeep if he doesn't have the correct change." The game does not work that way for either the players or the DM.
If I lived in a world where I hunted monsters and evil doers for a living, EVERYONE I MEET IS AN ENEMY. I don't need to "meta" that.
It does not matter what "in game" reason you have to use to justify the situation to yourself, the game is clear on how combat starts. Initiative is rolled and you act in that order. Even if you were the one that started the fight with, "I attack!" You might slip. A bird might have hit you in the face. The other guy might have been waiting for you. You might have gotten a horrible cramp. While you thought you were all calm and collected, your enemy was laughing at how much your hands were shaking and the sweat beading up on your brow telling him you were about to attack.
Use any of those reasons above to allow yourself to follow the rules while remaining within the realm of what you believe is realistic.
I have won more than one LARP fight where the attacker though I was totally off guard. But in reality I suspected something. I had my balance set. I took inventory of my weapons and knew exactly how much time I would need to draw them. I knew where each tree, large rock, and bench in the area was. And when he lurched to "surprise" me, I stuck him with the pointy end and danced around him.
Just because you think you are ready for combat does not mean the other guy isn't more ready.
All this talk of "battle stance". Where is that described in the combat rules?
Nowhere.
It's perfectly plausible to be able to make an attack, especially a magical one but even a physical one, without entering some imaginary stance that isn't mentioned anywhere in the combat rules.
Arguing that a person cannot ready an action without going into this imaginary stance is purely the province of house rules, not RAW.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the "Rules Question" section of the message boards where we discuss the rules of a game, not the reality of our IRL Karate class?
Or if you prefer, readying the action DOES start the combat and it's his surprise round. This is unnecessary - the claim that you can only use a readied action in combat because it takes a standard action is just as inapplicable as saying you can only walk when in combat because walking takes a move action. Clearly we can use actions outside of combat and knowing that those actions are defined as standard, move, full-round, etc., doesn't have any bearing on whether they can or cannot be used out of combat.
I would give observers a Sense Motive check to see that the NPC is (secretly) hostile while pretending not to be. The NPC is using his bluff skill, either to deceive (appear friendly when planning to attack) or to appear harmless (depending on which use of the skill the GM prefers, but the end result is the same).
I would not automatically have them roll for initiative without knowing why.
If they failed their Sense Motive checks, then they would be surprised because they were unaware of their opponent at the start of battle (they saw the NPC, of course, but were unaware that this NPC even was an opponent, therefore, they were unaware of their opponent).
All by RAW.
I see it completly as DM_Blake describes it.