Community minded & Raging Song & Moment of greatness & Amplified rage interactions

[Metux]

Hey guys, here is the situation:

I have a skald using raging Song on one( or many others, it doesn't change the situation) ally and the Skald himself.

So both actually are under an effect that grants Morale bonuses.
Ok now, read carefully
The Skald now casts moment of greatness: While I might understand that the spell itself doesn't grant moral bonuses, it doubles the moral bonuses of the raging song let's say from a +2str to +4str (or +1will to +2 will, w/e bonus you have) for one roll only.

On the next round : the skald have all of his actions

The skald now attacks with his moral strength bonus doubled, questions:

1) Can he once he has the bonus doubled, stop raging, thus activating the community minded trait, while it was temporarly granting him double of his strength bonus, for 2 more turns?

2) If you dont use the bonus and stop raging, community minded kicks in and you get 2 extra round of moral bonuses. If you were also under amplified rage effect, the moral bonus is also extended by 2 more rounds because you no longer fill the conditions => you are no more raging, right?

3) Can we apply the previous example (2) to the spell moment of greatness because of this :

Community Minded wrote:

Benefit(s): Any morale bonuses you confer upon your allies through your own abilities or spells last 2 additional rounds.

Even if the 'morale bonuses you confer upon your allies trough your own spell' lasts for just 1 roll, it still matches the description of the comminty minded benefits, and thus the same base bonus that was doubled by the spell is also extended for 2 rounds?

4) If none of those situations work: Is there any f%@~ing way to get this work? (without optimistic gambler which is a campaign trait and usually banned)

Thanks...

[Cavall]

On one roll, man. On one roll.

1) no.

2) no rage no amplified. Just the rage bonus. That's why Rage powers don't work because not actually raging. But this could be debated.

3) no. One roll. Not turn.

4) no.

[Azten]

1) I would say no, because the moral isn't coming from a spell. It's merely being doubled by a spell.

[Markov Spiked Chain]

I don't think Moment of Greatness actually works with Inspired Rage at all.

MoG doubles a "morale bonus on one roll or check". Inspired Rage isn't giving you a morale bonus on a skill or check.

MoG+Community Minded is a whole other can of worms. The safest assumption is that it doesn't work. Because if it does, you can keep doubling your Morale Bonus. 5 MoG for 5 rounds to get +128 to your Disable Device check with Greater Heroism?

[Metux]

Cavall wrote:

2) no rage no amplified. Just the rage bonus. That's why Rage powers don't work because not actually raging. But this could be debated.

Check this situation: (for clarity i ll use Raging vitality to compare)

You are raging and your raging vitality grants +2 extra moral bonuses.
Then you stop raging, and moral bonuses of the rage, and the raging vitality feat persist 2 rounds.

It's obvious that you can't use rage powers because you are no longer in the raging state, and community minded doesn't extend that, it extends EVERY moral bonuses of the EFFECTS that granted them. Those effects were activated at a time, then deactivated a while after, and that should be enough to trigger community minded.

Why shouldn't the spell (or effect) that briefly granted a specifc moral bonuses (which ended because of the only one charge roll) last 2 more rounds? At a specifc time it granted a bonus, then stopped => community minded should trigger .

I'm starting to think that this is the cause of the global confusion: we somehow believe that in order to trigger community minded, the effect or spell must grant moral bonuses for X rounds to be extended. That's not what it says...

[Metux]

Markov:
By 'One roll or check' I understand that it can be an attack roll, a saving throw roll etc... or any skill check.
So you are telling me that +2 str isn't a morale bonus for an attack roll (which mecanicely gives +1 moral bonus for this specific roll). But something like bless should work then?

[Cavall]

It's a single roll. No matter how many turns the effects of the trait give you extra, it's it vastly over written by the spell itself stating "a single roll"

Not even a single action. You could use it to boost strength to hit but NOT to damage on the same spell. That alone should be enough to state how singular it is.

[Metux]

Cavall:
Ok let's assume MoG has some specifcatons and doesn't work with CM, what do you think about raging vitality and amplified rage?

[Cavall]

Are you asking if they work together? And last with community minded?

As I said, debateable. The morale bonus being one thing, they are specific in that they last while raging. You stop raging they stop giving.

But the trait is clear that it keeps the bonus going. So I have no clear answer for that. I lean towards no, but I can see an argument for the other and have wording to back both. I'd look into other threads and see if it's come up before.

The reason I lean towards no is due to how the unchained barbarian made it clear that the paizo at leans away from rage cycling. So I would hazard any FAQ will likely be answered as such, therefore errata as such.