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I cast a spell.
If the master and the familiar are in contact at the time the master casts a touch spell, he can designate his familiar as the “toucher.”
Does the familiar have to be next to me (adjacent square) or same square on me (like on my shoulder)?
Once I cast the spell as a Standard (or whatever action it is), my familiar can deliver it.
What action is for my familiar to do so? Is it still considered a Free Action as per rules for Touch Spells in combat?
In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) as a free action. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target.
Or is it considered Holding the Charge and therefore the following?
Holding the Charge: If you don't discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action.
I have an Improved Familiar, Azata, which means it flies at 90ft (Perfect). If she can travel up to 180ft in 1 casting of a touch spell, it's great for certain buffs because it will allow me to avoid many AoO going up and down while delivering the spell.
It will also allow me to have her back next to me for the next spell/turn.
are you... using your familiar as a reach weapon?
anyway I think it's holding a charge, since the familiar isn't running on your action economy.
The familiar isn't the one casting so doesn't get to use the free action. However, a standard attack with a touch attack will deliver it on its turn.
You left out the next line of that quote. It's pretty important.
The familiar can then deliver the touch spell just as the master would.
This implies that the familiar can deliver the touch as a free action, "just as the master would".
The familiar can then deliver the touch spell just as the master would.This implies that the familiar can deliver the touch as a free action, just "as the master would".
Only if it happens during the same round in which the spell was cast. If it happens in any round after that, it becomes holding the charge and the familiar must use a standard action.
Only if it happens during the same round in which the spell was cast. If it happens in any round after that, it becomes holding the charge and the familiar must use a standard action.The familiar can then deliver the touch spell just as the master would.This implies that the familiar can deliver the touch as a free action, just "as the master would".
I don't believe holding the charge is being argued. Familiars can hold a charge.
I don't believe holding the charge is being argued. Familiars can hold a charge.Only if it happens during the same round in which the spell was cast. If it happens in any round after that, it becomes holding the charge and the familiar must use a standard action.The familiar can then deliver the touch spell just as the master would.This implies that the familiar can deliver the touch as a free action, just "as the master would".
So, if the familiar can deliver just as the master would, does that means it's limited to 1 move action (as the master would) + free action to touch?
Or would the familiar have something else?
And, does that movement limits the familiar movement on its own "turn"?
Normally, when a caster casts a touch range spell, he is granted a free action that he can spend this turn to attempt to deliver the touch spell.
Therefore, since "the familiar can then deliver the touch spell just as the master would", I would argue that the familiar is then granted a free action that he can spend this turn to attempt to deliver the touch spell. Period.
Thus, the familiar retains his move action, his standard action, his swift action, and additionally gains the free touch attack to deliver the spell.
That means he should be able to, say, move up to the enemy, deliver the touch spell, and then use the standard to move back. Or should be able to move up to the enemy, attempt to deliver the spell via touch, then make his natural attack which would also deliver the touch if the free touch attack failed.
I disagree, Johnny. The familiar did not spend a standard action to cast the spell and does not get a free action as part of that standard action that he didn't spend.
That's my point, there is no clear definition.
Does he holds the charge and use it's standard action to deliver and move to move? Or does he get something for free?
I disagree, Johnny. The familiar did not spend a standard action to cast the spell and does not get a free action as part of that standard action that he didn't spend.
The action spent was the master's, and the master would normally gain a free action to deliver the touch attack.
My argument is because of the wording "just as the master would", the familiar now gains a free action to deliver the touch attack on this turn "just as the master would". It only says just as the master would and doesn't give any other exceptions or conditions.
I disagree, Johnny. The familiar did not spend a standard action to cast the spell and does not get a free action as part of that standard action that he didn't spend.
It's not part of that standard action, though. It just says you can use a free action in the same round. The main reason I feel confident about this, though, is that you can use a move action between the casting and the free touch.
+1 here on the side that "just as the master would" grants the familiar a free action touch during the round of the casting. Standard holding the charge rules apply after that,obviously.
There is a reason I'm asking this.
I'm using an Improved Familiar, and it will use wands.
If the familiar cast get close to a friendly target, deliver a buff and still have movement to get away and the use a wand is a new whole combat scenario then just using his turn to deliver a touch spell and be done.
You can't move->free_touch->move using the same move action.
You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target.
The familiar could theoretically move_action->free_touch->standard_move_action.
There is a reason I'm asking this.
I'm using an Improved Familiar, and it will use wands.
If the familiar cast get close to a friendly target, deliver a buff and still have movement to get away and the use a wand is a new whole combat scenario then just using his turn to deliver a touch spell and be done.
In this scenario, and by my rulings, the familiar would have the move action required to move to the ally, the free action required to touch the ally and deliver the spell, and one standard action leftover. He can use that to move or to use a wand, but not both.
My argument is because of the wording "just as the master would", the familiar now gains a free action to deliver the touch attack on this turn "just as the master would". It only says just as the master would and doesn't give any other exceptions or conditions.
And my counter-arguement would be "How does the master do this ? He spends a standard action and gets to deliver as a free". The familiar can do the same, "just as the master would". BOTH parts of the AND are required to do it that way (just as the master would).
If you search around, you'll find that this topic has already been discussed a number of times. It may even be FAQ worthy. Most seem to agree the intention is for the familiar to deliver the spell as a "free action", but expect some table variation.
And my counter-arguement would be "How does the master do this ? He spends a standard action and gets to deliver as a free". The familiar can do the same, "just as the master would". BOTH parts of the AND are required to do it that way (just as the master would).My argument is because of the wording "just as the master would", the familiar now gains a free action to deliver the touch attack on this turn "just as the master would". It only says just as the master would and doesn't give any other exceptions or conditions.
To be more precise, what the text is saying is "The master casts a spell and designates the familiar as the toucher, and THEN the familiar delivers it as the master would".
By your argument, it would be impossible for the familiar to ever deliver a touch spell, because the familiar never did any casting of a spell.
I'm unclear on this as well, I'll just click faq as I could see it going either way.
I think emphatic link further reinforces the ability for the touch to be a free action since "The master has the same connection to an item or place that his familiar does.". While it doesn't clarify it rules wise, it does present some fluff that explains exactly how the touch spells are transferred.
Though it does seem weird that you need to be adjacent to someone who shares intractable space with you when you aren't adjacent. Familiars just need some clarification is all.
I mean, if I wasn't using an Azata I wouldn't care at all honestly, because my familiar would be there for scouting and fluff mostly.
But I used a feat to get an Improved Familiar, so in his turn he could actually be doing something better, like casting a spell from a wand.
I'm not trying to break the game or anything, just asking questions as long as they came when I'm thinking about what to do.
Do you guys consider a familiar is unbalanced as Leadership? I don't think so, but eventually (with some gold) my familiar could be casting Scrolls and some other things.
The "but the master spends a standard action to get that free action" falls apart once swift action touch spells become a thing.