This is my first post and my first truly custom build, so please take it easy on me :).
I've been building a character for a new campaign I'm playing in - the setting is an large, open world with 20 players and the setting is Faerun, but uses Pathfinder rules. I'm trying to make an optimal Fighter, while still keeping it fun for roleplaying and versatile enough for an open world game where Fighting doesn't happen on a daily basis. And the campaign has the possibly of taking players from level 1 - 20.
I started researching a lot for the PC and have spent the past week or so reading through optimizing guides, understanding archetypes, feats and traits and I finally came together with something interesting.
The PC was born in Cormyr, left at a young age. Grew up in Tangled Trees with Elves, but returned to Cormyr as an adolescent. Was picked up by the War Wizard Academy, but eventually washed out as an apprentice. Picked up with the Purple Dragons afterward and stayed with them for some time, until his dissatisfaction with regimented service was exploited by the Zhetarim. Resigned from the Purple Dragons to join the Zhentarim until he uncovered a plot where they were summoning beasts to attack villages to get hired to ward them off. now is traveling to the Sword Coast with an Oracle for Llorkah to escape Zhentarim lands.
In any case, looking at the strengths of the Fighter, my goal was to create a character that has the ability to turn on the pain, but also exhibit some buffing/de-buffing and battlefield control if necessary. Looking at the Archetypes, Lore Warden and Martial Master Stood out to me.
Lore Warden gives passive buffs to CMB/CMD as well as gives a mid-level ability to boost to hit and damage rolls, avoid critical hits and automatically confirm critical hits. Lore Wardens also make all INT skills class skill and give two additional skill points for spending in those skills per level. This seemed like an obvious choice for what I was looking to do. The trade off was that the PC would lose Armor Training and Armor Proficiency, as well as Bravery, which I don't care for.
Martial Master looked like a good add as well. The sacrifice of trading Weapons Training for Martial Mastery was a bit of a tough choice, but it opens up a lot of versatility and after researching, there were ways to get back most of the bonuses for Weapon Training. So, with Martial Master, I could truly focus on something along the lines of the Standard Critical Hit build, but with buying just a few 'initiator' feats, the PC could be flexible in battle. Not only that, but he could literally 'switch on' a feat for an Improved Combat Maneuver, without really sacrificing damage output - to an extent.
I stuck with this decision for a while, until I read another build post on the message boards that mentioned Variant Multiclassing Bard. Bardic Knowledge and Lore Master synergize with Scholastic, buffing the Lore Warden's Know Thy Enemy/Swift Lore ability and Bardic Performance and Additional Performances help cover the gap of missing out on Weapon Training from taking the Martial Master archetype, and also can be used with any weapon. Versatile Performance is just icing on the cake, allowing me to train Performance (Oratory) to gain Diplomacy and Sense Motive checks as a 2 more skills at level 11, while building up a performance skill for other feats. Yes, you lose out on 5 feats, but I think the trade off is fairly powerful.
The PC is a little bit more MAD than a standard fighter, but its not something completely unworkable. With the groundwork set, I had a pretty good idea of what to do.
For this campaign, we were given the choice of a Standard Point Buy or roll 4d6 x 6, drop the lowest rolls. I chose to roll and got the following scores: 16, 14, 12, 13, 10, 13. I played on the odds we'd likely get better scores rolling, than standard buy and what I rolled was a bit better than what I could've done point-buy.
Looking at the whole picture, it appeared as if the Lore Warden leaned more toward a Finesse Fighter build if you wanted to fight on the front lines, considering the removal of Medium and Heavy Armor Proficiency. I looked a couple of option for strength, which would give the PC Overrun, Bullrush and Grapple viability, but having low AC just isn't what I was looking for in a Fighter. Also, Hair's Breath would require a decent Acrobatics check, which was Dexterity based skill and made difficult using Heavy Armor.
So, Dexterity it was. Now the tricky part was creating a Damage Dealer, using Dexterity and taking advantage of the eventually Capstone ability provided by Lore Warden. Looking at the weapons, the Elven Curve Blade provided exactly what I was looking for: Crit Range like the Falchion, Two-Handed and Finessable. Not only that, but it had a bonus to CMD, which stacked with Lore Warden - the sword was basically calling for me to create a build around it.
So, there it was - a Dexerity Based Fighter, designed around hitting almost as hard as a Strength based fighter, but gaining versatility in Combat Maneuvers as well as Bardic Performances and the ability to adopt feats on the fly. And it all has synergy!
Race: Human, 'Adopted' Elf
Class: Fighter (Lore Warden/Martial Master, Bard VMC)
Traits: Armor Expert, Defender of the SocietyAbility Scores:
STR: 14
DEX: 18
CON: 12
INT: 13
WIS: 10
CHA: 13Very MAD and a little sub-optimal on CON, but I can always grab a Favored Class bonus to HP if needed.
HP: 11
AC: 18 (Studded Leather w/ bonus from Defender of the Society)Using Light Armor with Defender of the Society and Armor Expert, Studded Leather gives MORE AC than Scale Mail and on Par AC to Chainmail, which are the two best armors that likely can be bought at level one without the 'Rich Parents' trait. And, there is no penalty to movement, nor any Armor Check Penalty due to Armor Expert.
At later levels, the goal would be to use a Mithral Breastplate, which gives 12 AC and no Armor Check Penalty using Defender of the Society, Armor Expert and a 20 Dexterity ability score. That's on par with Full Plate, with no Armor Check Bonus and significantly cheaper if the Full Plate is Mithral.
Defense: check.
Now the issue is Attack/Damage. To shore this up, taking the 'Adopted: Elf' Racial Trait at Character Generation is a must. The reason is for a feat that I would have to take anyway: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Elven Curve Blade). But, taking the Racial Trait also gives a free language, so it's preferable in this particular build to get a two-for one.
Two-Handed Fighter Base: check.
Level 1: Weapon Finesse, Additional Traits (Indomitable Faith, Carefully Hidden), Scholastic
Level 2: Combat Expertise, Power Attack
Level 3: Bardic Knowledge, Maneuver Mastery
Level 4: Weapon Focus (Elven Curve Blade), +1 DEX
Level 5: Dodge, Martial Flexibility
Level 6: Combat Reflexes
Level 7: Bardic Performance, Know thy Enemy
Level 8: Greater Weapon Focus (Elven Curve Blade), +1 DEX
Level 9: Critical Focus, Martial Flexibility 2
Level 10: Weapon Specialization (Elven Curve Blade)
Level 11: Versatile Performance, Hair's Breath
Level 12: Critical Versatility, +1 Dex
Level 13: Staggering Critical
Level 14: Critical Mastery, Swift Lore, Martial Flexibility 3
Level 15: Greater Weapon Specialization (Elven Curve Blade)
Level 16: Surge of Success, re-train Staggering Critical to Blinding Critical, +1 Dex*Note* I realize that it would be better to take 'Additional Traits' feat later on in the build and get Power Attack at level one. But my GM prefers us taking traits at level 1.
So my thought process here is get Weapon Finesse as early as possible, allowing me to use the Elven Curve Blade like a Falchion. Additional traits gives me a better version of Iron Will with Indomitable Faith and Carefully Hidden. Combined, they give +2 to Will Saves and an additional +2 against divination. Unfortunately, Power Attack has to wait until level 2, but in game, I think this will be okay.
Level 2 provides Combat Expertise for free, which just opens up the Feat Chains at level 5.
At this point my goal is to grab Weapon Focus, along with the setup feats needed for 'Wombo-Combos' (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2refn?Brawler-vs-Lore-WardenMartial-Master).
By Level 5, I should have 20 AC just using Studded Leather, +10 to attack and 1d10+6 to damage without Power Attack. But at this level, Martial Flexibility opens up. Need to Sunder, Trip or Disarm? Flip on and 'Improved' feat as a move action, pesky cast using a 5'step, turn on Step Up first round. Fighting something with Slashing DR? Weapon Versatility fixes that. The PC now becomes a versatile combat, while still focused on damage.
By Level 6, you have all the 'Initiator' Feats to start up a 'Wombo-Combo' with Dexterity and can focus on amplifying damage/critical hits.
Level 7 gives Know Thy Enemy AND Bardic Performance. So, you can use your first Standard Action to either Buff your Party, or take a Knowledge check to scan an enemy for weakness, gaining +2 attack/+2 damage. Or you could two both in the first round getting +3/+3 for yourself and +1/+1 for the rest of the party in two rounds if necessary. Your first round can also see a move action use Martial Flexibility to grab a combat feat if necessary.
After this, Feats are focused improving critical hits until at least level 16.
What the goal will be in a combat scenario is to use the first round or two to asses the situation - Buff Self using Know thy Enemy, or Buff Party using Inspire Courage, or both. And also, thinking through if a specific combat tactic would be applicable to a given combat scenario.After the first round, I would move tactically and attempt to gain a full attack against a target. If a full attack can't be achieved, then I will attempt a combat maneuver buffed by being a Lore Warden and possibility a Martial Master combat feat. The goal would be controlling the battle and still doing functional damage to the target. I would be aiming to get in for a full-attack or try to utilize Attacks of Opportunity with Combat Reflexes to deal out some solid damage.
For enemies who aren't really affect by combat maneuvers, I have the ability to assess their weaknesses, apply a combat feat if necessary and go to town dealing out two-hander damage.
So, what do you all think?
Would you change anything up here? Is getting Improved Critical necessary if you have a 'keened' weapon? If so, where would you put it in the progression? Also, any suggestions for feats from level 17-20? I've never played in a campaign over level 16 so I'm somewhat in a blank area there.
Additional traits gives me a better version of Iron Will with Indomitable Faith and Carefully Hidden. Combined, they give +2 to Will Saves and an additional +2 against divination.
Unfortunately, trait bonuses do not stack, so the +1 to Will saves from each trait would not stack. In addition, the +2 vs Divination is also a trait bonus to your Will save, so you only get a total +2 vs Divination, rather than the +3 you might expect. (Though that part would give you a +2 to Fortitude and Reflex saves, if any divination spells targeting those saves exists.)
Good to know. I'll have to speak with my GM about that. I don't think he realized that the traits do not stack either. I'll probably grab something to shore up Fortitude from the low con in that case.
I may re-think grabbing additional traits and instead grab Power Attack at level 1 and Iron Will later on as well.
Race: Human, 'Adopted' Elf
This may not fit the flavor you're going for, but have you at least considered being an Elf?
By rearranging your ability scores, you can hit
Str 13
Dex 18
Con 12
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 13
Basically, you switch Strength and Intelligence. At level 4 you could potentially even out Strength.
Assuming you don't touch Strength, you lose 2 points of damage. You could negate this loss, however, if you can enchant your weapon with the agile property, which is probably cheaper overall than trying to add Strength to your belt in addition to Dexterity. Losing Human's Skilled trait is evened out by your increased Intelligence, which you weren't planning on evening out.
In exchange, you get immunity to magical sleep, +2 to Will saves vs Enchantments, +2 Perception, and Low Light Vision. In addition, you'll probably want to trade out Elven Magic for another racial trait. That gives you options like:
- Desert Runner: +4 to a lot of Con checks (similar to having the Endurance feat)
- Envoy: 1/day SLAs for comprehend languages, detect magic, detect poison, and read magic
- Eternal Grudge: +1 to attack rolls vs dwarves and orcs
- Silent Hunter: reduce Stealth penalty while moving by 5 and Stealth while running at -20
- Woodcraft: +1 Knowledge Nature, +1 Survival. Both increase to +2 in forests
Overall, I think the Elf package gives you a lot of boons to your out of combat versatility for a pretty minimal loss of damage.
I do think initially Lore Wardens seem to favor Elves as a race for Fighter. I thought about Elf initially and even dabbled switching STR to Int on the Human build, but one of the reasons I left STR where it is was do to possibly going for Dazzling Display around level 8 with a +1 bump to STR and using Martial Mastery to get Awe Inspiring Smash if I couldn't pass an intimidate check. I've somewhat left that option open, but I wasn't sure if it was worth it.
Hm. I'm not sure if that's worth it.
Remember, you'll need Performing Combatant to use any performance feats during normal combat to begin with. Awe-Inspiring Smash only gives you an effective +1 by letting you use STR instead of CHA for performance checks. You could get the same increase by putting that +1 STR bump into CHA instead, which would also help your social skill checks -- including Intimidate.
So, all you're really getting out of it is a +2 (and maybe a little bit more if your CMB check was really good) to some performance checks. If you really want Awe-Inspiring Smash, though, you also have the possibility of using some cash to add +2 Strength to your belt, which would take you from 13 to 15 and let you qualify anyway.
Looking at your feats now...
At level 15, you should be picking up Lore Master, rather than a feat.
I do see you lose a little more by switching from Human. Critical Versatility is a solid feat. Surge of Success isn't bad, either, given how often you'll crit.
I'd suggest keeping Staggering Critical as a known feat, even if you stay Human. That leaves the option of picking up Stunning Critical at 17, which is an absolutely brilliant feat. Even if they make the save, they're still staggered for 1d4 rounds. Before you get there, even Staggering Critical is really good, as it still lasts 1 round on a successful save.
In fact, with Critical Mastery, if you have nothing better to apply, you could use Staggering and Stunning Critical at the same time. In which case, even if they pass both saves, they still get staggered for 1d4+1 rounds -- the same as failing the save on Staggering Critical! If they fail on Staggering, but pass on Stunning, they end up with 2d4+1 rounds of stagger. The worst case is that they pass on Staggering but fail on Stunning... But that's still fine, because they're stunned for 1d4 rounds.
Good points! So, in my later levels, should I focus on getting Critical Status Feats, or do you think Staggering/Stunning Critical and Critical Versatility is good enough?
Also, should I look into getting Improved Critical (Elven Curve Blade), or is keening just fine?
So this is what I'm thinking now for Feat Progression:
Level 1: Weapon Finesse, Power Attack
Level 2: Combat Expertise, Dodge
Level 3: Bardic Knowledge
Level 4: Weapon Focus (Elven Curve Blade)
Level 5: Combat Reflexes
Level 6: Iron Will
Level 7: Bardic Performance
Level 8: Greater Weapon Focus (Elven Curve Blade)
Level 9: Critical Focus
Level 10: Weapon Specialization (Elven Curve Blade)
Level 11: Versatile Performance
Level 12: Critical Versatility
Level 13: Staggering Critical
Level 14: Critical Mastery
Level 15: Lore Master
Level 16: Greater Weapon Specialization (Elven Curve Blade)
Level 17: Stunning Critical
Level 18: Surge of Success
Level 19: Additional Performances
Level 20: Hammer the Gap, re-train Critical Focus for Greater Iron Will or Improved Critical
Any opinions of change to feat progression?
The critical status feats are definitely good. You should have more than just Staggering and Stunning, since you will quickly get to a point where a given opponent is going to be staggered for the rest of the fight. I think it's kind of your call whether or not Critical Versatility is sufficient for that or not.
Looking at it again, you actually don't qualify for Critical Mastery at 14, because neither Critical Focus nor Critical Versatility is technically classified as a critical feat. You also can't retrain out of Critical Focus at 20, as it is a prerequisite for other feats you still have.
As far as Keen vs Improved Critical... It's a tough call. One makes your weapon cost more (and remember, you're probably going to want an agile weapon regardless, as you're stacking DEX), but you've already traded away a lot of your feats for variant multiclassing, and I don't see an obvious place for it. Things get a little simpler if you go Elf, as you'll need to replace Critical Versatility and Surge of Success. In that case, I'd suggest pushing back Greater Weapon Focus and taking Improved Critical at 8th.
I thought that Critical Focus counted as a Critical Feat, but looking over the verbiage of Critical Mastery, it appears as if I'll need Critical Focus and two additional critical feats.
So, I will take Bleeding Critical at level 12 and re-train Bleeding Critical to Blinding Critical at level 16. At level 20 I will re-train Blinding Critical to Critical Versatility.
...This is my first post and my first truly custom build, so please take it easy on me :).
I've been building a character for a new campaign I'm playing in - the setting is an large, open world with 20 players and the setting is Faerun, but uses Pathfinder rules. I'm trying to make an optimal Fighter, while still keeping it fun for roleplaying and versatile enough for an open world game where Fighting doesn't happen on a daily basis. And the campaign has the possibly of taking players from level 1 - 20.
I started researching a lot for the PC and have spent the past week or so reading through optimizing guides, understanding archetypes, feats and traits and I finally came together with something interesting.
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
Unfortunately mate, Know Thy Enemy and Inspire Courage don't stack as they both provide a Competence bonus. Beyond that looks decent.