For my TK guide, I'm needing to get an idea/feel for which infusions works best for someone wanting to melee as a Kineticist.
Earth and Aether:
Bowling: Trip Maneuver vs CMB Roll
Entangling: Reflex Negates 1 minute of Entanglement, can Escape Artist out.
Pushing: Push those in melee away 5' (AoO?)
Those are the only options from what I can see, and I kinda think Pushing is the best of the 3?
What about Air, Fire or Water?
Fire:
Brillant: Light?
Burning: Additional damage per turn <-- Seems best?
Flash: 1 round Blinded
Unravelling: Dispel Magic
Cold: (practically useless)
Chilling: 1 round staggered. <-- Best of 1
Air: (practically useless)
Gusting: Gust of Wind <-- Best of 2?
Thundering: 1 round deafened
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Bowling: Trip Maneuver vs CMB Roll
Entangling: Reflex Negates 1 minute of Entanglement, can Escape Artist out.
Pushing: Push those in melee away 5' (AoO?)Those are the only options from what I can see, and I kinda think Pushing is the best of the 3?
Depends who you're fighting. Being entangled can really nerf a caster.
Remember to factor in burn cost for all of them, infusion specialization is eaten up by whip form until you hit level 11, and that at least entangling stacks with itself to increase the effect. In general I'd say stagger or entangle but neither are worth the extra burn cost until infusion specialization catches up. Kinetic blade instead of whip does help with that at the cost of reach and AoOs.
You're right of course, which means that Cold doesn't have a decent Kinetic Whip Substance to add in (costs 3 for his only one)
Gusting and Thundering each cost 1, but are applied to different blasts (Air and Electric respectively), so either are just as good.
Brilliant, Flash and Unravelling are too expensive until you get to upper levels, so those are out, and Burning really is the best even without cost I think.
So for the Aetheric/Earthen, I guess Push is best til 14th level, but at 14th level either Entangling or Bowling would be 'free' as well. Seems causing those you're in melee with to trip would be slightly more beneficial than entangling, unless the melee target is trying to run away.
Seem right?
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Fire:
Brillant: Light?
Burning: Additional damage per turn <-- Seems best?
Flash: 1 round Blinded
Unravelling: Dispel Magic
Burning is a must have to combo with Searing Flame. Brilliant is cool to dispel heightened deeper darkness, as you use your blast's effective spell level. Unravelling is good as well, and will burn through enemy buffs as well as spell sunder, but do damage as well.
Air: (practically useless)Gusting: Gust of Wind <-- Best of 2?
Thundering: 1 round deafened
I wouldn't call either of these useless.
Thundering is Permanent Deafness. It's really mean, but not that damaging of a debuff for combat. Casters have a 20% failure chance for verbal spells, and they have a -4 to perception and initiative checks. Yawn.
Gusting is actually very useful. 1: it's a free trip vs small, and a free bull rush with damage for tiny or smaller. It's fantastic swarm control. It's also useful to get rid of annoying cloud effects, from obscuring mist to stinking cloud. I would have killed for it in [REDACTED].
Also, if you think you can make a lot of AoOs, it can be worth it to gather+single attack whip with a nasty substance, rather than full attack. For instance, if all of your AoOs dispel one of the enemy's spells, it might make them very unhappy. Obviously don't do this unless you think you can make some AoOs (or heavily control the enemies actions in the pains they take to avoid your AoOs, which may be equally good in just the right circumstances).
Mhe if you are willing to take burn just whip out (hehe) a composite kinetic whip and then count the corpses.
Imbaticus, I wasn't saying that the infusions listed were worthless in general, but worthless as a default substance to go with kinetic whip. I'm looking to make the whip as powerful as possible, especially for my Aether Guide, which (Dekalinder) has crappy composite blasts. :( Basically, the more I look, the more it seems that Aether is the absolute worst element to have a Kinetic Whip with, not only because the composite is so weak, but because expanding into other elements doesn't really give you the substance boost you'd think you might get for the whip, except perhaps Burning.
And, thanks Mark, the Unravelling with a bunch of AoOs would be kinda cool... I wasn't aware that the Substance added to a Kinetic Whip would have the same duration as the Kinetic Whip itself. That's definitely something else that should be added to the FAQ when it comes out...
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Imbaticus, I wasn't saying that the infusions listed were worthless in general, but worthless as a default substance to go with kinetic whip. I'm looking to make the whip as powerful as possible, especially for my Aether Guide, which (Dekalinder) has crappy composite blasts. :(
It's cool. I'll agree that they are more useful for a normal blast than a blade/whip. That said, they can still be useful with a blade/whip.
Basically, the more I look, the more it seems that Aether is the absolute worst element to have a Kinetic Whip with, not only because the composite is so weak, but because expanding into other elements doesn't really give you the substance boost you'd think you might get for the whip, except perhaps Burning.
Not to mention that you would need to be holding rope or an actual whip in your hand to use the telekinetic whip in the first place. Other elements create their weapons, you need to draw them.
Not to mention that you would need to be holding rope or an actual whip in your hand to use the telekinetic whip in the first place. Other elements create their weapons, you need to draw them.
That's a good point, and makes the Kinetic Blade a bit more interesting for Aether than for other elements... since you'd still threaten. I wonder how this would work with a Longspear, which has reach. Your Kinetic Blade would strike your base target, but you'd threaten with reach...? Could be interesting with a Pushing infusion...?
If I may say so, I think aether is the worst element period. The lack of composite means kinetic blade/whip is actually your only way of dealing respectable damage, and you don't really have anything that makes you expecially good in melee either. And as far as battlefield control, fire or earth blows you out. The defense wild talent is the only positive note about the aether element imho. And is still eclipsed by the water one.
Anyway if you like the smell of cheese, buy a bunch of quickrunner shirt so once per combat you can use the extra move to gather power so you can empower/maximize you whip for free.
Precisely... it's the utility of the Aether that makes him the best element, period. We are not the best at damage, but you are wrong in that we do better battlefield control than any other element, both with our infusions and with out utilities.
As for the Quickrunner Shirt, that only works once per day. Or yes, we'd all have one.
Precisely... it's the utility of the Aether that makes him the best element, period. We are not the best at damage, but you are wrong in that we do better battlefield control than any other element, both with our infusions and with out utilities.
As for the Quickrunner Shirt, that only works once per day. Or yes, we'd all have one.
I think Dekalinder suggested that you buy more than one Quickrunner Shirts and change them after use, so you can have the effect more that once per day, thus the smell of cheese...
Ah, missed the "bunch", thanks. Though admittedly, any GM that has Quickrunner shirts hanging out in masse for sale probably wouldn't consider it cheese. :P
You also can't use the move from Quick Runner's Shirt to Gather Power.
It specifically says "Once per day as a swift action, the wearer can take an additional move action to move on his turn."
You'r right I botched that. That's cuz I don't actually allow them in my games XD Still pounce once per combat is really good for the price. But I guess this way it doesn't have anything special for the kinny.
Also, if you think you can make a lot of AoOs, it can be worth it to gather+single attack whip with a nasty substance, rather than full attack. For instance, if all of your AoOs dispel one of the enemy's spells, it might make them very unhappy. Obviously don't do this unless you think you can make some AoOs (or heavily control the enemies actions in the pains they take to avoid your AoOs, which may be equally good in just the right circumstances).
Since when can you make attacks of opportunities with instantaneous spell-like abilities? I thought that was something only certain kinetcist archetypes could do.
Also, if you think you can make a lot of AoOs, it can be worth it to gather+single attack whip with a nasty substance, rather than full attack. For instance, if all of your AoOs dispel one of the enemy's spells, it might make them very unhappy. Obviously don't do this unless you think you can make some AoOs (or heavily control the enemies actions in the pains they take to avoid your AoOs, which may be equally good in just the right circumstances).Since when can you make attacks of opportunities with instantaneous spell-like abilities? I thought that was something only certain kinetcist archetypes could do.
The kinetic whip disappears at the beginning of your next turn, but in the intervening time, it threatens all squares within its reach, allowing you to make attacks of opportunity that deal the whip's usual damage.
Thanks Chess Pwn. So you still can't provoke with kinetic blade then?
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You cannot provoke with Kinetic Blade on an opponent's turn. However, I'm wondering if the opponent had a readied action for "Cast X spell right after a Kinetic Blade attack" and if they were within your blade reach, then are they considered threatened by your blade? That seems like a really silly corner case though to hash out.
It's much easier to just go with "No, Kinetic Blade can't take advantage of AoOs because as soon as your turn is over, the blade disappears. However, Kinetic Whip persists until the beginning of your next turn meaning it is still ready and active to use in AoOs."
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It's much easier to just go with "No, Kinetic Blade can't take advantage of AoOs because as soon as your turn is over, the blade disappears. However, Kinetic Whip persists until the beginning of your next turn meaning it is still ready and active to use in AoOs."
You can use a Kinetic Blade with AoOs if the AoO is provoked on your turn. The only way I could see this working is if you had Bowling Infusion and Greater Trip. If you used a Bowling Blade, your hit would trigger a trip attempt, which would then trigger an AoO on your turn form GT, allowing you to take the AoO with your kinetic blade.