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Hypothetically I have a Druid that through feat selection has the Sorcerer Arcane Bloodline power which grants Arcane Bond as a Wizard. I choose to summon a familliar with it. Am I eventually elligiable for the Adept Channel feat? That feat requires the "Summon Familliar" class feature like is posted on the Adept NPC class. Does Arcane bond fulfill that requirement? Thoughts?
Posted from phone so sorry about any errors.
Eldritch Heritage
Arcane Bloodline
Arcane Bond
Adept Channel
Some orc adepts enjoy a greater connection to their gods, and can channel their faith through their unholy symbols. You gain the ability to channel energy as a cleric.
Prerequisites: Ability to cast divine spells, summon familiar class ability, caster level 4th, Charisma 13.Benefit: You gain the channel energy class feature, as a cleric, usable 2 times per day. This ability otherwise functions like the cleric's channel energy ability, except that your effective cleric level is equal to your divine spellcasting class level –3. Unlike a cleric, however, the number of times per day you may channel energy is not affected by your Charisma modifier.
1) Your bloodline power gained is not a class feature.
2) The class feature the bloodline mimics is Arcane Bond, not Summon Familiar.
3) The NPC class Adept gets this class feature at 2nd level.
This feat requires at least two levels in an NPC class.
/cevah
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This post leads me to believe that it is actually ok. Though i do understand your reasoning as well. I assumed you were correct originally but found this so thought it was worth posting so other people pulling up this thread will have the full picture in case they have a similar build idea.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2oej3?Adept-Channel-Adept-Only
It points to this post which lead great evidence to it as well.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ln8z?Can-a-Life-Oracle-with-Channeling-take#29
The quote that summarizes it the best I will post for ease of reading.
"Benly
wraithstrike wrote:
A prerequisite is a prerequisite. I would like to see their reasoning though since a specific class feature is called out.
The reasoning in favor of allowing non-adepts with familiar class features to qualify is derived from this post, wherein SKR clarifies that the Life oracle's "channel" feature, the paladin's "channel positive energy" feature, and the cleric's "channel energy" feature all count as the same feature for purposes of prerequisites despite having different names, because they all use the same mechanics and point to the same source for the rules on how they work.
Since the adept's "summon familiar" feature points to the wizard's "arcane bond" feature and uses the same mechanics as the familiar function of arcane bond, it seems consistent with this earlier ruling to say that the two abilities (and any other ability that points to the arcane bond's familiar function and uses the same mechanics) are considered the same feature for purposes of prerequisites, just as the three different channels are."
A prerequisite is a prerequisite. I would like to see their reasoning though since a specific class feature is called out.
The reasoning in favor of allowing non-adepts with familiar class features to qualify is derived from this post, wherein SKR clarifies that the Life oracle's "channel" feature, the paladin's "channel positive energy" feature, and the cleric's "channel energy" feature all count as the same feature for purposes of prerequisites despite having different names, because they all use the same mechanics and point to the same source for the rules on how they work.
Sounds like that wonderful grey area where people on one side shout "RAW!!" while people on another side shout "RAI!!" and still others like me shout "GAME LORE!!" but no one hears because that's not a breakable platform to build OP characters on.
Simply put: If the rules you are trying to use were written such that you require loopholes, word lawyering, or a redefining of terminology to get your build to work, it probably isn't viable.
BUT WAIT!! THERE'S MORE!!
Wizards/Sorcerers in Pathfinder do not gain the ability Summon Familiar. This was eradicated when 3.5 became Pathfinder. It is now simply: Arcane Bond. The prerequisite for Adept Channel is explicit to the class Adept, which is the only way to acquire the "Class Ability" Summon Familiar, as Cevah pointed out. The verbage on Adept Channel is clear and binary, you either have that exact class ability, or you do not.
If you should choose to ignore this with the reasoning that like abilities should spawn like prerequisites, I would counter with this:
Your Eldritch Heritage sacks your level by 2, and Adept Channel sacks it by 3. Your channel ability, then by proxy of "like reaps like" would then be used as your Druid level -5. Have fun with that.
I'm all in favor of "substance over label" interpretation. Really, I am. But this one is very clearly for Adepts only.
Only Paladins can take Turn Undead as only their channel class feature has the name "Channel Positive Energy", right?
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@Kyaaadaa By your same logic you are saying Witches and Shaman may not qualify for some familiar enhancement feats and Oracle/Paladin do not qualify for any Channeling feats. Like I said I originally thought the answer was "no" per the first responses reasoning but looking into the ruling for channeling it seems to be clearly a yes answer. It works for all class abilities or it works for no class abilities you cannot cherry pick rules unless a developer explicitly says there is an exception.
As the feat is pretty terrible overall I am not sure why anyone is getting bent out of shape over it. 2 Channels at level -3 is kind of a joke for two feats. Also yes it would be level -3 not level-5 as your effective level for purposes of your familiar has no bearing outside of how powerful your familiar is. Abilities are not scaled based on their prerequisites, they tell you how they are scaled in their wording.
This post leads me to believe that it is actually ok. Though i do understand your reasoning as well. I assumed you were correct originally but found this so thought it was worth posting so other people pulling up this thread will have the full picture in case they have a similar build idea.
It points to this post which lead great evidence to it as well.
Can a Life Oracle with Channeling take
The quote that summarizes it the best I will post for ease of reading.
A prerequisite is a prerequisite. I would like to see their reasoning though since a specific class feature is called out.The reasoning in favor of allowing non-adepts with familiar class features to qualify is derived from this post, wherein SKR clarifies that the Life oracle's "channel" feature, the paladin's "channel positive energy" feature, and the cleric's "channel energy" feature all count as the same feature for purposes of prerequisites despite having different names, because they all use the same mechanics and point to the same source for the rules on how they work.
Since the adept's "summon familiar" feature points to the wizard's "arcane bond" feature and uses the same mechanics as the familiar function of arcane bond, it seems consistent with this earlier ruling to say that the two abilities (and any other ability that points to the arcane bond's familiar function and uses the same mechanics) are considered the same feature for purposes of prerequisites, just as the three different channels are."
Linkified & quoted for you.
The problem with your argument is that Summon Familiar is a subset of Arcane Bond, but not all of it. It specifically is not the bonded item side. Therefore, while similar, it is not mechanically the same.
I agree that it should be as simple as:
One of the concepts we established was "things should be the same, or they should be different." (And by "different" I mean "very different" so you don't mix up the two.)
but, these are not very different, nor are they the same.
Would you allow someone to take the channel feat if they chose a bonded item? I doubt it.
I can see a case for a witch's familiar, since they are restricted to the same subset the adept is. Yet even it has some differences, since the familiar is the witch's spellbook.
/cevah