Vengeance Strike (Ex): At 20th level, a vigilante can
spend a standard action to study a target that is unaware
of the vigilante (or does not see him as a threat). He can
continue to spend standard actions in this way, up to a
maximum of 5 standard actions, but all must be spent in
consecutive rounds. After studying a target, the vigilante
can, in the next round, declare that he is making a
vengeance strike against the target. For each round spent
studying the target, the vigilante can grant himself a +4
circumstance bonus on the attack roll, gain +3d6 points
of precision damage, or treat his die roll as if it were 2
higher for the purpose of determining if the attack hit
or if it threatens a critical hit (maximum 20). Each round
of study can be spent in a different way, but each round
of study must be allocated before the attack roll is made.
A vengeance strike must be declared within 1 round of
studying a target and all rounds of study are expended
when the vigilante declares a vengeance strike.
That's not a very good capstone, and there is a lot of potential here for what we've been asking for in a well rounded bonus to hit/damage option.
Purposed Fix
Vengeance Strike (Ex): Starting at 1st level, a vigilante can spend a move action to study a target that is unaware of the vigilante (or does not see him as a threat). After studying a target, the vigilante can declare that he is making a vengeance strike against that target. The vigilante grants himself a circumstance bonus on attack rolls and AC equal to 1/4 his vigilante level (minimum 1), and gains +1d6 points of precision damage per three vigilante levels (minimum 1d6, maximum 7d6 at 18th level). The bonus on attack rolls and AC lasts until the target is deafeated, but the bonus on damage rolls only functions while the target remains unaware that the vigilante is a threat. A vigilante can study one enemy at a time at first level, and an additional enemy at 8th, 12, and 16th levels. Starting at 8th level, studying an enemy is a swift action. At 12th level studying an enemy is a free action. As a free action, he may lose focus on which enemy he has studied in order to begin studying a new target, if he does he cannot study a new target until the next round.
True Vengeance (Ex): At 20th level, when a vigilante studies enemies, he may treat every d6 roll for precision damage as if he rolled a 6, and there is no limit to the number of targets he can study at any given time.
The starling appearance chain should extend the duration that the damage from Vengeance Strike lasts for by literally scaring them into not being able to process what they are being threatened by. This adds nice synergy to the class features.
This should replace Seamless Guise, which really oughta be baked right into Dual Identity.
There are ramifications for the stalker having his toes stepped on, assuming he isn't amalgamated with the avenger like everyone wants him to be.
|
It depends on what they believe the core conceit of the class to be, right? At the moment, given the evidence available, that seems to be stealth, surprise, and intimidate. So I don't think the proposed Vengeance Strike change is that out of line, myself.
That said, with the stalker being a separate specialization instead of being the core list of talents, there's an argument that Vengeance Strike and the various Appearances shouldn't be part of the base class at all and they should add some other mechanic to replace them. Responding to injustice would suggest a different conceit but I don't know that that's the one they want the class to be about. The only thing we know they're adamant on is the dual identity stuff.
The proposed change is pretty close to studied strike. I could see it for the Stalker, but like hidden strike better. I'd rather see a mechanic allowing the Vigilante to instantaneously respond to injustice if they choose to bake a damage steroid into the core part of the class.
I disagree. Studied strike is a constant attack and damage bonus that you set up rather quickly; by 10th level, a swift action gets you +3 on attack rolls, damage rolls, a smattering of skill checks, and the save DCs of your slayer abilities.
The proposed change to vengeance strike would be MUCH more powerful, but only apply on that first, initial attack and also take several rounds to set-up. It would solidify the vigilante's roll as, "The class that is fantastically powerful on the fist turn of combat."
In fact, if an ability that also added to the DC of the vigilante's spells against the target of this early-level vengeance strike was created, it would be absolutely perfect. ;-)
Best thing to do would be to nix the d6's and come up with something new.
Maybe something involving charisma? Level based damage has been done so really anything we come up with will seem like something else that's already been done.
|
|
What are we trying to promote with this class? Seems to me like stealth and intimidate. Perhaps it should just be a simple scaling bonus for those.
Vengeance Strike
The Vigilante excels at surprise and intimidation. Beginning at level 1, while in his Vigilante identity, he gains a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls made against foes who are unaware of his presence, who consider him an ally, are denied their Dexterity bonus to AC by startling appearance, or who have the Shaken, Frightened, or Panicked conditions. At 5th level, and at every five levels thereafter, this bonus increases by +1 to a maximum of +5 at level 20.
|
What are we trying to promote with this class? Seems to me like stealth and intimidate. Perhaps it should just be a simple scaling bonus for those.
Vengeance Strike
The Vigilante excels at surprise and intimidation. Beginning at level 1, while in his Vigilante identity, he gains a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls made against foes who are unaware of his presence, who consider him an ally, are denied their Dexterity bonus to AC by startling appearance, or who have the Shaken, Frightened, or Panicked conditions. At 5th level, and at every five levels thereafter, this bonus increases by +1 to a maximum of +5 at level 20.
This see like a good idea but I would prefer a bonus to intimidate too seeing how almost, keyword almost, every class here gets a bonus to attack/damage along with some skills or AC.
|
|
I don't think you want to overdo it--both in terms of giving free stuff, and also in prescriptively determining which build or combination the class will be working with. You do want to give the class at least a few options for synergy, but the class already has some of those. I think it's just missing a piece or two depending on the specialization.
As it stands, it would work well with renown (once renown works, anyway) which is a flat +4 bonus to intimidate while within your area of renown.
The Avenger doesn't interact much with stealth or intimidate. It has some options for improving stealth, but why would it? The class doesn't encourage it in any way. This option provides a small incentive to use at least one of the options available, whether it's the "stealth in armor" talent(s) or using their bonus feats on things like Cornugon Smash.
The Stalker already interacts pretty decently with stealth and intimidate but it's missing out a bit of accuracy and damage compared to comparable classes.
The Warlock is a tricky case because the warlock has some stealth options but it doesn't have to depend on weapons to the same extent the other classes do. Still, with the current wording on mystic bolt, most Warlock builds would be able to benefit from the hypothetical ability.
The Zealot can get Stern Gaze, which is the bonus to your intimidate that you're looking for. Beyond simply using the skill, though, there wasn't a lot of synergy between its intimidate skill and anything else the class did. If you take my proposal for vengeance strike, that adds a little bit of synergy to the Zealot without making it a clear-cut best build.
Just my thoughts, anyway. The Vigilante really does remind me of the Core monk, and I think it needs something to pull it together besides the dual identities.
The capstone is completely irrelevant to the point that it might as well not exist. 20th level is a myth in my experience. Being able to use a lesser form of vengeance strike from level one would be great.
Yeah. No amount of capstone "awesomeness" can be used in balancing a class.
1st of almost no characters actually reach level 20 and are still played so that the capstone would actually see some action.
2nd even in such a very, VERY rare campaign in whcih level 20 characters are actually still active, the amount of time between BEING at 20 and LEVELING to 20 is immensly skewed.