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A few times the game mentions how abilities, items and effects function (or don't) in a vacuum. After looking around for awhile and not finding anymore information I was wondering if anybody knew if there are any rules for fighting in a vacuum or space.
Though specifically I would like to know:
1) Does being in space cause you to take cold damage?
2) Seeing as there is no air I am assuming creatures that need to breathe risk suffocation?
3) Same as above, no air means no spells with verbal components unless cast with silent spell? No command words either?
4) No air ... do breath weapons function?
6) ... So since there isn't any air ... can you imbibe things like potions or alchemical items?
7) Last time (yeah right) does non-magical flight function in a vacuum?
8) Does being in space impose any negative effects from things like radiation, pressure, or the orbits of planets?
I'm not looking to know how this would work in real life, just some quick play rules in case it comes up.
From Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Distant Worlds
One of the greatest threats on any world is its atmosphere. While certain spells—such as those presented later in this chapter—fortify characters against even the dangers of hard vacuum, the unprepared may find themselves in dire peril. A character introduced to hard vacuum, such as all of outer space, immediately begins to suffocate (see page 445 of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook). Characters introduced to a planet where the atmosphere isn’t rich enough in oxygen may use the same rules, or else the modified rules for slow suffocation (Core Rulebook 445) if the oxygen quotient is almost sufficient. Some planets, such as Aucturn, may even have poisonous atmospheres, which can use the stats for any inhaled poison in the Core Rulebook and affect any breathing creatures, even if the planet otherwise has enough oxygen to sustain them.
Vacuum also presents another danger: decompression. A character suddenly transitioned from a normally pressured environment to pure vacuum, such as by being flung out of an airlock, takes 3d6 points of damage (no save) in addition to any suffocation damage. Sound is muffled in thin atmospheres, mimicking the effects of a silence spell.
That's all I found that tackles it specifically.
OK, I'm going to be that guy for a moment here: What the hell kind of game are you playing that you actually need to know this?
As for the actual questions:
1). Yes.
2). Yes.
3). If you can cast verbal spells underwater, you can probably cast them in a vacuum as well.
4). Ironically, breath weapons don't actually need you to be able to breath to use them. Just look at Undead/Constructs with them as a prime example.
5). Where is 5?
6). No idea.
7). No, flight from an Extraoridnary source won't work.
8). The lazy part of me says "No." Mainly because that's way too much to account for in play.
That's a super common myth-- space isn't 'cold'. There's few molecules bouncing around to steal kinetic energy, so you actually wouldn't freeze in a vaccuum.
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The starsoul Bloodline from the APG specifys the effects of being in space
Breaching the Gulf (Sp): At 15th level, your caster level is increased by 3 when casting spells of the teleportation subschool. In addition, once per day you can teleport a single creature within 30 feet into the void of space if it fails a Will save. The save DC is equal to 10 + 1/2 your sorcerer level + your Charisma modifier. The target can attempt a new saving throw as a full-round action each round to return. While trapped in the airless void, the target takes 6d6 points of cold damage per round and must hold its breath or begin to suffocate.
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In the vacuum of space you will die of many things before you freeze or really start to feel cold.
There is (almost) no matter for your body to interact with. Heat exchange occurs in 3 ways. Conduction, convection, and radiation. Conduction is heat transfer between solid object. Like putting your hand onto a hot piece of metal.
Convection is heat transfer due to the movement of gases or liquids. Think of a fan.
The final is radiation, where infrared radiation is released. It does not require matter to transfer it. The biggest source of this in our solar system is the sun.
Now, since space is almost devoid of matter conduction and convection are virtually non-existent. And radiation heat transfer is pretty slow compared to the normal heat transfer we're used to. You will die of solar radiation or lack of oxygen long before you succumb to the cold of space.
But space is cold, despite what Leesus Freak said. It's about -270C. Which is just slightly above absolute zero, which is due to cosmic background radiation. The problem is that despite being very cold, there is nothing to allow for heat transfer.
Also, it's quite impossible to hold your breath in space. Due to the higher partial pressure inside your body and lungs the oxygen dissolved in your blood will actually perform the opposite process in our lungs and be drawn out of your body. No amount of holding your breath can prevent it. Mostly because the pressure difference will also see your lungs trying to turn themselves inside out while all your blood vessels are also destroyed because of the pressure difference.
While your skin will be fine and hold up the vacuum of space without problem, all the little soft tissues inside of you will be wrecked by the sudden reversal of the normal pressure paradigm (that is, pressure outside your body is greater than inside).
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Come, come. Surely the phlogiston would sustain you. Of course, you might just spontaneously combust, but that's another problem.
Unless it's the aether. Aether is neither hot nor cold, wet nor dry. Though you might wind up moving in circles.
A few times the game mentions how abilities, items and effects function (or don't) in a vacuum. After looking around for awhile and not finding anymore information I was wondering if anybody knew if there are any rules for fighting in a vacuum or space.
Though specifically I would like to know:
1) Does being in space cause you to take cold damage?
to be clear stuff doesn't get cold in space, the boiling point is significantly lower and so all the warm parts of the liquids evaporate leaving only the cold parts making ice. so the human skin is also able to withstand a vacuum and thus doesn't have issue you will not feel cold, you will feel nothing. your eyes, nose mouth and ass however... will be frozen over instantly.
But space is cold, despite what Leesus Freak said. It's about -270C. Which is just slightly above absolute zero, which is due to cosmic background radiation. The problem is that despite being very cold, there is nothing to allow for heat transfer.Also, it's quite impossible to hold your breath in space. Due to the higher partial pressure inside your body and lungs the oxygen dissolved in your blood will actually perform the opposite process in our lungs and be drawn out of your body. No amount of holding your breath can prevent it. Mostly because the pressure difference will also see your lungs trying to turn themselves inside out while all your blood vessels are also destroyed because of the pressure difference.
While your skin will be fine and hold up the vacuum of space without problem, all the little soft tissues inside of you will be wrecked by the sudden reversal of the normal pressure paradigm (that is, pressure outside your body is greater than inside).
at the first part, space is -270C because absence of matter reads at 0 kelvin, so that's more like the universes average temp using it's whole volume or more likely area of the background radiation scan, which is a 2D image.
2nd, you can;t hold your breathe because to breath in you have to pull your diaphragm down which air then fills in the new space, since there isn't air to push in, it will push out to fill in the space outside your lungs. your blood will actually boil and then freeze stopping additional loss of oxygen through your lungs.
3rd, this is untrue, the body can withstand several Gs of force, being put in a vacuum barely constitutes any Gs of force. your soft tissues will be fine, apart from any exposed areas boiling and then freezing.
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Nothing specific since there are no space based major settings. I would put it at 4d6 cold damage per round, 1d4 Con damage per round from the vacuum effects on the body and start to immediately suffocate on round 1. This would be in line with real effects on humans, with 20 to 30 seconds being survivable, but with severed effects on the body that would most likely make you wish to not have survived.
I would probably make it a flat suffocation, with maybe an auto sickened condition...
I'd be inclined to inflict both cold and fire damage. Cold from liquids sublimating off your surface, and fire from being in direct sunlight (if applicable).
The PFS scenario Trial By Machine had a scene where the players had to navigate a vacuum. It was too short of a time for it to have any real danger to it so I don't remember what the rules were.
I'd be inclined to inflict both cold and fire damage. Cold from liquids sublimating off your surface, and fire from being in direct sunlight (if applicable).
but you can't catch fire in space :3
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@Randarak
Thanks that's exactly what I was looking for, it hadn't occurred to me that there might be a player companion on the subject. If there were just a little more info it would be perfect.
OK, I'm going to be that guy for a moment here: What the hell kind of game are you playing that you actually need to know this?
and
And again, what kind of campaign are you playing where any of your questions would come up?
It's a Hail Mary and I likely won't even attempted it, but after thinking about the hypotheticals I at least wanted to see how it would work out in theoryland.
Its been heavily implied that we're going to be up against a powerful and likely at least ancient dragon. While looking for a way to shut down its blindsight I saw the line about blindsight not working in a vacuum and the mental image was too cool not to at least try and bring to reality. However, there isn't really a reliable way to make it happen and so the upper atmospheric dragon battle will only live on in my head. Thanks for the replies everyone, maybe I'll try the Hail Mary and hope for a 1.
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Just take a look at the rules from Distant Worlds quoted above. They will suffice to kill your unprotected self, without the pedantry.
And again, what kind of campaign are you playing where any of your questions would come up? Pitch Them Out The Airlock, the D20 edition is by it's nature, a pretty short game.
Why... It is a Sturmshutz and Sorcery variant! Spaceships and Sorcery!
Mix the d20 Traveller system with D&D! ;->
But space is cold, despite what Leesus Freak said. It's about -270C. Which is just slightly above absolute zero, which is due to cosmic background radiation. The problem is that despite being very cold, there is nothing to allow for heat transfer.Also, it's quite impossible to hold your breath in space. Due to the higher partial pressure inside your body and lungs the oxygen dissolved in your blood will actually perform the opposite process in our lungs and be drawn out of your body. No amount of holding your breath can prevent it. Mostly because the pressure difference will also see your lungs trying to turn themselves inside out while all your blood vessels are also destroyed because of the pressure difference.
While your skin will be fine and hold up the vacuum of space without problem, all the little soft tissues inside of you will be wrecked by the sudden reversal of the normal pressure paradigm (that is, pressure outside your body is greater than inside).
at the first part, space is -270C because absence of matter reads at 0 kelvin, so that's more like the universes average temp using it's whole volume or more likely area of the background radiation scan, which is a 2D image.
2nd, you can;t hold your breathe because to breath in you have to pull your diaphragm down which air then fills in the new space, since there isn't air to push in, it will push out to fill in the space outside your lungs. your blood will actually boil and then freeze stopping additional loss of oxygen through your lungs.
3rd, this is untrue, the body can withstand several Gs of force, being put in a vacuum barely constitutes any Gs of force. your soft tissues will be fine, apart from any exposed areas boiling and then freezing.
Absolute zero is -273K. Absence of matter doesn't necessarily mean no temperature. I refer you back to radiation heat transfer. If there is enough radiation (which does not require matter transfer) you still have some heat energy. That is provided by the relatively consistent "background radiation" tha permeates the universe.
The oxygen will absolutely dissolve out of your blood and exit you lungs. It doesn't matter whether or not you can physically hold the air in your lungs, the way you lungs work the oxygen cannot stay in your body.
G force has nothing to do with what happens to exposed soft tissues in a vaccum. G force is a measure of force, not pressure. I will say, I shouldn't have said all, I should have said near to the surface soft tissues.
http://www.quora.com/What-happens-to-your-body-in-the-vacuum-of-space
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum
http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2012/06/you-can-survive-being-expos ed-to-the-near-vacuum-of-space-for-about-90-seconds-with-no-longterm-damage /
http://www.geoffreylandis.com/vacuum.html
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This is kind of late, but here is my opinion.
1) Does being in space cause you to take cold damage?
No more than being in the arctic. Cold weather gear ought to take care of this.
2) Seeing as there is no air I am assuming creatures that need to breathe risk suffocation?
Without some sort of assistance (like Bottle of Air, Necklace of Adaptation, etc.) I say yes.
3) Same as above, no air means no spells with verbal components unless cast with silent spell? No command words either?
I would think as long as there is air in your lungs you ought to get one command word out or verbal spell. One round casting time spells would be a long shot.
I would say a concentration check is in order in any case, and it had better activate a spell like Life Bubble or something or you are in deep weeds (see item 2 above).
It will take a short time for the air in your lungs to dissipate once a command word is spoken, but if you hold the wand or whatever up to your throat (where the sound is made) or breathe the command word on it as spoken, that ought to be enough to activate.
4) No air ... do breath weapons function?
I would say the Dragon (or whatever) gets one shot for sure.
Do breath weapons require air? I say no, why would that be necessary to spit acid or project electricity? Fire might need oxygen for that breath weapon to work, but cold? I say those breath weapons require a type of connection to the elemental planes, but not oxygen.
6) ... So since there isn't any air ... can you imbibe things like potions or alchemical items?
If a potion is in some kind of flexible container, like a water skin, then it can be squeezed out. If not then use inertia by putting your mouth around it and apply a sharp blow to the bottom, like a stubborn ketchup bottle.
7) Last time (yeah right) does non-magical flight function in a vacuum?
Wings require air to operate. If you picked up a rocket pack from Numeria, then that works.
8) Does being in space impose any negative effects from things like radiation, pressure, or the orbits of planets?
Radiation? If using Mage Armor, that might be protection enough.
In space most radiation is really high energy subatomic particles, not radiation at all so a suit of armor (metal, preferably adamantine) might be enough protection.
Pressure? There is no pressure in space, at least very little.
I suspect you would get a case of The Bends real fast.
Orbits of Planets. If the victim is stationary and in the path of a planet, moon or other object - SPLAT...
I remember another game treating this as a case of the GM grabbing all the dice on the table, rolling them all, and declaring that as your damage. In a game that tended to have about 20 HP as 'zomg tank' level for a human.
As far as being in a planet's orbit, you'll probably notice it. Planets have more than velocity, they have our good friend gravity. (Then again, that does cap out at some point, but why not add 20d6 to collision damage? Trust me, you know you want to.)
Absolute zero is -273K.
i literally just didn't want to search up the specific value
background radiation is pretty damn close to absolute zero, any radiation heat will come from the sun and the energy will be coming from protons not space. it also, isn't matter, it won't drain energy from you, there are 3 types of energy transference, contact, convection and radiation, radiation is one way, it cannot make you colder, other than YOU radiating energy away. since you aren;t touching anything you will keep your energy for a long time.
lack of matter means lack of energy, since matter is made of energy.
the evaporation of the moisture in your lungs would make them freeze keeping your blood capped off from space.
pressure is a type of force measured in an area, humans can withstand 15G and live fairly easily, lack of pressure exerts no Gs on the body, the body trying to expand exerts very little force, the body can simply withstand the pressure very well.
FROM YOUR OWN LINKS
Humans and animals exposed to vacuum will lose consciousness after a few seconds and die of hypoxia within minutes, but the symptoms are not nearly as graphic as commonly depicted in media and popular culture. The reduction in pressure lowers the temperature at which blood and other body fluids boil, but the elastic pressure of blood vessels ensures that this boiling point remains above the internal body temperature of 37 °C.[52] Although the blood will not boil, the formation of gas bubbles in bodily fluids at reduced pressures, known as ebullism, is still a concern. The gas may bloat the body to twice its normal size and slow circulation, but tissues are elastic and porous enough to prevent rupture.[53] Swelling and ebullism can be restrained by containment in a flight suit. Shuttle astronauts wore a fitted elastic garment called the Crew Altitude Protection Suit (CAPS) which prevents ebullism at pressures as low as 2 kPa (15 Torr).[54] Rapid boiling will cool the skin and create frost, particularly in the mouth, but this is not a significant hazard.
Animal experiments show that rapid and complete recovery is normal for exposures shorter than 90 seconds, while longer full-body exposures are fatal and resuscitation has never been successful.[55] There is only a limited amount of data available from human accidents, but it is consistent with animal data. Limbs may be exposed for much longer if breathing is not impaired.[56] Robert Boyle was the first to show in 1660 that vacuum is lethal to small animals.
the following is only under rapid decompression
Rapid decompression can be much more dangerous than vacuum exposure itself. Even if the victim does not hold his or her breath, venting through the windpipe may be too slow to prevent the fatal rupture of the delicate alveoli of the lungs.[56] Eardrums and sinuses may be ruptured by rapid decompression, soft tissues may bruise and seep blood, and the stress of shock will accelerate oxygen consumption leading to hypoxia.[60] Injuries caused by rapid decompression are called barotrauma. A pressure drop of 13 kPa (100 Torr), which produces no symptoms if it is gradual, may be fatal if it occurs suddenly.
13 kPA is only about a 1/10th of the pressure the atmosphere exerts.
As a follow up to Claxon's fantastic post earlier, here's a note about cold in space-
It doesn't really matter how cold it is if you don't have atmosphere.
Think about the fan he mentioned. That's convection. That is what makes cold really matter.
Without air to actually transfer heat, an object will retain its own heat for a pretty impressively long time.
To really drive this point home, here's a little real-world comparison:
A person can wear a t-shirt in antarctica as long as there's no wind.
By contrast, if the temperature is 30 degrees fahrenheit with a 30 mile an hour wind, an unprotected person will die of exposure in about 30 minutes.
Its wind chill that gets you. Not really the cold.
And I have to say this.
Absolute zero is -273K. ...
Actually, you're thinking -273C. Or 0K. Since the point of the Kelvin scale is 'Fine, we'll put 0 at actual absolute zero for you jerks who want to talk about "twice as hot", happy now?!'.
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And I have to say this.
Actually, you're thinking -273C. Or 0K. Since the point of the Kelvin scale is 'Fine, we'll put 0 at actual absolute zero for you jerks who want to talk about "twice as hot", happy now?!'.
Absolute zero is -273K. ...
Technically it is -273.15C
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_zero