Unchained Intimidate: Rake Rogue better than Thug?

[SillyGuy]

Since Pathfinder Unchained, various skills can "unlock" greater powers.

So I was thinking if the Rake rogue archetype is finally comparable to the Thug Rogue Archetype if you use rogue's edge for Intimidate.

What do you think?

Rakes can easily reach extremely high modifiers on their intimidate checks; 3d6 Sneak attack can be foregone for a free intimidate attempt with a +10 circumstance bonus, and 10d6 Sneak attack can be foregone for a free intimidate attempt with a +45 circumstance bonus.

Thugs can inflict the frightened condition at level 1 with Enforcer, but it lasts only 1 round, and subsequent attempts to intimidate are facing an ever-increasing DC. (+5 for every additional attempt)

[RumpinRufus]

Three problems:

1) Allows a Will save.

2) Relies too much on getting a sneak attack.

3) Doesn't kick in until at least level 5.

[Alex Mack]

Also consider that the level 3 Thug ability is also a rather stellar debuff especially when combined with debilitating injury...

[AndIMustMask]

and/or the hurtful feat and cruel enchants.

[Secret Wizard]

At this point, I like the Investigator better for non-PFS.

As a Human:

Lv 1. Medium Armor proficiency; Intimidating Prowess

Lv 3. Power Attack; Inspired Intimidation

Lv 5. Cornugon Smash; Quick Study

Lv 7. Signature Skill (Intimidate); Amazing Inspiration

For PFS, Thug outpaces Rogue in my opinion. Blade of Mercy + Enforcer while using an Elven Curved Blade rocks.

[RumpinRufus]

You can't qualify for Cornugon Smash at level 5. Also, while I don't claim to be an expert on investigators, I can't help but think a Power Attacking investigator would have trouble hitting.

[shroudb]

investigators have stellar attack bonus due to studied combat+mutagen.

but the problem is that they need like lvl4 to even begin working and they are feat starved as well as their swift action economy isnt the greatest there is (with them having to swift study each of their targets)

[Secret Wizard]

RumpinRufus wrote:

You can't qualify for Cornugon Smash at level 5. Also, while I don't claim to be an expert on investigators, I can't help but think a Power Attacking investigator would have trouble hitting.

It's not that bad, honestly. Just a -1 that's easily compensated by Flanking, Extracts and Studied Combat.

I always forget Cornugon Smash needs to be taken at level 6+. Anyway, switch it around with Signature Skill.

[Douglas Muir 406]

I think the Rake is a perfectly good archetype on its own. But it doesn't gain much from the skill unlock IMO. As noted, the unlock doesn't kick in until 5th level, and then it allows a Will save. Also, Frightened and Panicked are not always better than Shaken. If you're fighting the BBEG, you don't want him running away, you want him to stay right there so you can finish him.

Doug M.