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So in an attempt to do something funny, I am trying to find the limit of the definition of an Attended Object. Does it include any item carried by a creature? Can a creature actively decide that an object it is carrying is not attended for the purpose of spell effects?
Hypothetical 1: Wizard is using Mage Hand. He wants to grab a flask of alchemists fire from a party member's bandoleer, and said party member is in full agreement with this. Mage Hand only permits moving unattended objects. Could the party member permit the wizard to Mage Hand his flask? (Ok, that's starting to sound dirty...)
Hypothetical 2: Ok, this is where I start to push things a bit to be funny. Mage Hand has a limit of 5lb. Tiny creatures have a valid weight range of 1lb-8lb. Fox Shape turns you into a tiny creature, so you could say the fox was 3-4 lb (which is realistic, that's on the large side of the size range for a Fennec fox). Said fox is wearing a harness and can either cast Mage Hand or has a Hand of the Mage wondrous item permitting doing so at will. Can the fox consider the harness unattended, use the mage hand to grab himself by the collar, and fly around? :) I'm not imagining this will be all that frequently *useful*, as it's a move action to move 15 feet and requires concentration to maintain, but it could be a way to, for example, follow the party if they're climbing up a rope. And the thought of a tiny little fox floating around in the air is just too funny to pass up :)
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1) Even if they are okay with it, it would still be an attended object. If they were okay with you using them, they could drop it during their turn. Problem solved.
2) If you are wearing it, it isn't unattended now is it?
I guess the best way to look at it (from the rules mechanics we have), is if it is on your person, worn/held/attached, or under your control (say from mage hand or telekinesis used to wield a weapon), you should consider it " attended " unless otherwise stated. It isn't a "choice" it is a state being, it either is or it isn't.
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Having an item in your equipment means that the item is attended. Picking up an object means that the object is attended. Sitting on a plate means the plate is attended. The only way this would work would be if the fox were inanimate, either by paralysis, petrification or death. Then someone else could use Mage Hand on the plate, cage, box, harness or even body.
What you want is beyond a 0th level spell; it's a 1st level spell called Floating Disk. It won't fly to great heights, but it's reliable and lasts for hours.
Fully agree with what Cuuniyevo said, except that being paralyzed doesn't make you an object (death does, however, and petrified is grey enough that I think it could go either way).
Found this in a quick search. My CRB is not handy, so I can't vouch for page 174 personally.
If you are touching it, it's attended.
If your sitting on the plate, it's touched.
Shenanigans could ensue I guess by sitting on plate 1, that is on plate 2, and levitating plate 2... at the same time though, at an RAI level, I'd doubt that they intended for that 'style' of loophole. Mage hand is meant to move around objects, not people, no matter how you want to loophole it.
Found this in a quick search. My CRB is not handy, so I can't vouch for page 174 personally.
If you are touching it, it's attended.
If your sitting on the plate, it's touched.Shenanigans could ensue I guess by sitting on plate 1, that is on plate 2, and levitating plate 2... at the same time though, at an RAI level, I'd doubt that they intended for that 'style' of loophole. Mage hand is meant to move around objects, not people, no matter how you want to loophole it.
If that were the case, a weapon wouldn't be " attended " if you wore gloves. You aren't "touching" the weapon directly. So no shenanigans allowed, touch is transfered through attended objects to make others attended.
If that were the case, a weapon wouldn't be " attended " if you wore gloves. You aren't "touching" the weapon directly. So no shenanigans allowed, touch is transfered through attended objects to make others attended.
Don't you love the ambiguity of the English language? Let's be frank.
For the purposes to identify if an is attended I have ruled in the past that if you are actively holding an object, such as a dagger in your teeth, a potion in a Tieflings tail or a sword in your hand(glove or not). You are actively aware of your possession of the object otherwise you would drop it. You are attending to this object so it is not dropped.
The opposite is true for objects that are being worn passively. You are not paying attention to the sword in your scabbard or the heirloom necklace around your neck. This would thematically leave room for players and NPCs to attempt to snatch these objects with a steal combat manuver.
I would not consider a plate someone is sitting on actively attended unless they were holding onto it to make sure they don't fall off.
Same in the example of a flying carpet, if you have 3 passengers, unless someone is holding onto it there is nothing stopping a strong force from reaching up and literally pulling the rug out from under neath them.
You could argue that the suitcase on the floor next to you at the airport is attended. But for the purposes of the steal combat manuver a suitcase on the floor next to you is fair game.
Yep, looks like.
Though chances are if the fox jumped on it, it probably would exceed the weight limit realistically anyways. The fox might weigh 5 pounds, but once it starts moving around, jumping or landing, the extra force exerted comes into play as well. Create a small platform that will just hold your weight, then jump on that platform. It will fall through/down.
Now, mechanically it might seem odd, but the end result would be the same as you would expect in real life in this situation. And that is generally what the rules do, give us a semblance of reality to play or game in.
If that were the case, a weapon wouldn't be " attended " if you wore gloves. You aren't "touching" the weapon directly. So no shenanigans allowed, touch is transfered through attended objects to make others attended.Don't you love the ambiguity of the English language? Let's be frank.
For the purposes to identify if an is attended I have ruled in the past that if you are actively holding an object, such as a dagger in your teeth, a potion in a Tieflings tail or a sword in your hand(glove or not). You are actively aware of your possession of the object otherwise you would drop it. You are attending to this object so it is not dropped.
The opposite is true for objects that are being worn passively. You are not paying attention to the sword in your scabbard or the heirloom necklace around your neck. This would thematically leave room for players and NPCs to attempt to snatch these objects with a steal combat manuver.
I would not consider a plate someone is sitting on actively attended unless they were holding onto it to make sure they don't fall off.
Same in the example of a flying carpet, if you have 3 passengers, unless someone is holding onto it there is nothing stopping a strong force from reaching up and literally pulling the rug out from under neath them.You could argue that the suitcase on the floor next to you at the airport is attended. But for the purposes of the steal combat manuver a suitcase on the floor next to you is fair game.
We have an item that is attended even though it isn't in physical contact, so it isn't even contact that is possibly required, just proximity. Ioun Stones.
We have an item that is attended even though it isn't in physical contact, so it isn't even contact that is possibly required, just proximity. Ioun Stones.
I agree. Ioun stone maybe an exception to the perception of "attended". As its anchored in a fixed orbit around a characters head. If I'm not mistaken isn't there already published rules to snatch a ioun stone in PFRPG?
We have an item that is attended even though it isn't in physical contact, so it isn't even contact that is possibly required, just proximity. Ioun Stones.I agree. Ioun stone maybe an exception to the perception of "attended". As its anchored in a fixed orbit around a characters head. If I'm not mistaken isn't there already published rules to snatch a ioun stone in PFRPG?
In their write up, they have their own AC, HP and hardness for purposes of attacks and being grabbed. But they are attended so would benefit by using the owners saves.