About Improved Familiars

[Gregor Greymane]

I am wondering if it is legitimate to equip a Familiar who has UMD with wands, and then have them use the wands to target enemies (or allies) on the caster's turn?

I highly doubt there is anything wrong with this, but I wanted to be sure.

It's probably a dumb question. :P

[Jeff Merola]

Sure, if the Improved Familiar has the hands (or other suitable appendage, as determined by your GM) to manipulate the wand, and the ability speak.

[Gregor Greymane]

Jeff Merola wrote:

Sure, if the Improved Familiar has the hands (or other suitable appendage, as determined by your GM) to manipulate the wand, and the ability speak.

I am assuming that a Faerie Dragon has the required appendages? :D

[Dave Justus]

Legitimate rules wise absolutely.

However, before employing this tactic make sure you talk with your GM and your group. Most probably won't have an issue with it, but the extra actions, especially for a spell caster that often have complex turns anyway, can be an issue. Just make sure everyone else at the table is good with this before you set yourself up to do it.

[Gregor Greymane]

Dave Justus wrote:

Legitimate rules wise absolutely.

However, before employing this tactic make sure you talk with your GM and your group. Most probably won't have an issue with it, but the extra actions, especially for a spell caster that often have complex turns anyway, can be an issue. Just make sure everyone else at the table is good with this before you set yourself up to do it.

Yeah I had thought about that. I've got a control-caster that I am hoping to get the Improved Familiar Feat for, and pursue this route.

I was envisioning getting two debuffs off per round... ahhhh sweet, sweet, caster-power!!!

[Mark Hoover]

Don't need an Improved Familiar if you're willing to spend a feat.

1. Alter Self: cast on familiar to make it into something with hands/speech

2. Evolved Familiar: Skilled (Use Magic Device): familiar now has +8 on UMD

I forget which ones, but some standard familiars have an 11 Cha to start. By level 3 when you get Alter Self you have hopefully spent 2 ranks on Use Magic Device. Those, plus the one feat, means your familiar has a +10 and can now use wands requiring a DC 20 check simply by taking 10.

Sure, you waste one round turning your familiar into a humanoid, but what is that against at least 3 minutes at a time basically doubling your actions after that one round? Personally this is the route I'm going with a crafter-type wizard. She has an Owl (Cha 6) so I'll need additional buffing to get it using wands but I figure it's worth it.

[Jeff Merola]

Gregor Greymane wrote:

Jeff Merola wrote:

Sure, if the Improved Familiar has the hands (or other suitable appendage, as determined by your GM) to manipulate the wand, and the ability speak.

I am assuming that a Faerie Dragon has the required appendages? :D

Faerie Dragons cast as sorcerers, so if the wand is on the Sorcerer/Wizard list, they don't even need UMD to use it.

Just remember that Wands have really low DCs.

Mark Hoover wrote:

Don't need an Improved Familiar if you're willing to spend a feat.

1. Alter Self: cast on familiar to make it into something with hands/speech

2. Evolved Familiar: Skilled (Use Magic Device): familiar now has +8 on UMD

I forget which ones, but some standard familiars have an 11 Cha to start. By level 3 when you get Alter Self you have hopefully spent 2 ranks on Use Magic Device. Those, plus the one feat, means your familiar has a +10 and can now use wands requiring a DC 20 check simply by taking 10.

Sure, you waste one round turning your familiar into a humanoid, but what is that against at least 3 minutes at a time basically doubling your actions after that one round? Personally this is the route I'm going with a crafter-type wizard. She has an Owl (Cha 6) so I'll need additional buffing to get it using wands but I figure it's worth it.

So, for more investment (same number of feats, plus a spell slot, plus using an action) you can not take one of the better feats a caster can take?

Also, you can't Take 10 on UMD without a class feature (or similar) that explicitly lets you. The skill expressly forbids it.

[Gregor Greymane]

Jeff Merola wrote:

Gregor Greymane wrote:

Jeff Merola wrote:

Sure, if the Improved Familiar has the hands (or other suitable appendage, as determined by your GM) to manipulate the wand, and the ability speak.

I am assuming that a Faerie Dragon has the required appendages? :D

Faerie Dragons cast as sorcerers, so if the wand is on the Sorcerer/Wizard list, they don't even need UMD to use it.

Just remember that Wands have really low DCs.

I suppose I would give it wand for spells without a saving throw then, or simply damage... any suggestions? Does one add their INT/applicable stat to wand DCs?

[Jeff Merola]

Gregor Greymane wrote:

I suppose I would give it wand for spells without a saving throw then, or simply damage... any suggestions? Does one add their INT/applicable stat to wand DCs?

You only get to add a stat mod if you're a Magus with Wand Mastery, or a Wizard with Staff-Like Wand. So never, for familiars.

Higher level wands of Magic Missile are decent, as are higher level wands of Scorching Ray or Snowball.

[Gregor Greymane]

Any suggestions for viable control-spells without a DC? I know these are rare...

Limp Lash comes to mind.

[Jeff Merola]

Nothing comes to mind that doesn't also rely on the casting stat in other ways.

[Abraham Z.]

Ill omen.

[Dave Justus]

Mudball as a readied action is incredibly powerful.

[Keith Apperson]

People always underestimate having a familiar that can buff you - mage armor, blur, stuff like that. As far as control goes, a cheap entangle wand will get used throughout your career. Not for the entangle effect (which is weak) but for the:

'I think there might be someone coming from that direction, good thing I can inhibit movement in a 20-ft RADIUS area 440ft away.'