Rules of Electric Spells and Effects with Conductivity

[BlingerBunny]

I've been looking up these spells and figuring out what goes on. Real world physics could apply, but I want to make a call that my GM would be proud of.

This isn't as much rules questions as, "Does this look good as a ruling?"

Example 1: Druid floods room with 1 inch of water, Sorcerer casts shocking grasp on one of 5 enemies in a group, each character adjacent to the target must make a reflex or take half the damage. The damage is halved for every 5 ft square beyond adjacent squares, as long as they are in contact with water. This includes the caster. (5d6) 30 max, would be 15 for adjacent, 7 within 10ft, 3 within 15ft. and 1 within 20ft.

Example 2: A sorcerer casts Shocking Grasp on a metal door, 1 enemy charges the door and takes full damage for coming into contact with the electrified door. Multiple enemies make contact, in a group charge against the door. Each enemy would take 1/n damage, where n represents the number of enemies making contact with the door, whether directly or indirectly. This is the video I used to think of the second example.

How do these examples look for rules of conductivity?

[Jeff Merola]

You want the Suggestions/House Rules/Homebrew forum, not the Rules forum, since nothing you're discussing actually happen within the base framework of Pathfinder. Flagged for the thread to be moved.

[BlingerBunny]

Jeff Merola wrote:

You want the Suggestions/House Rules/Homebrew forum, not the Rules forum, since nothing you're discussing actually happen within the base framework of Pathfinder. Flagged for the thread to be moved.

Thanks Jeff, I do hope these examples on electricity and conductivity take off.

[Sangerine]

If you want real world physics to apply. then the RAW is correct.
Purified water (which I assume is the medium produced by the "Create Water" cantrip) is actually a terrible conductor.

Hollywood's "electrical explosion" as soon as a spark hits any fluid isn't even remotely realistic.

As for the metal door, a brief burst of a charge will not "electrify" the door.
It will disperse.

If you want cinematic/Hollywood physics, then by all means have some sort of supernova electrical explosion pulse erupt out of the water and/or door.

[BlingerBunny]

Think of the number of dungeons and how clean they aren't. That water is going to mix with anything that is on the floor, including dried blood, dust, mold, and even metal fragments of weapons and armor from prior fights, which would allow for conductivity. It's not even an explosion, it's like dropping a live telephone wire into a pothole or a low spot in the road that's been filled by rain water.

It's not logical to assume that despite the purity of the water created, that the floor of a dungeon is going to be immaculate, leaving that water pure for the duration. Ogres, Orcs, Giants, Trolls, and any dungeon dwelling monsters might keep a dungeon clean of dead bodies, but they're still filthy buggers. Blood and bones are the highlight of their interior decorating skills.

As for the door, I agree, an electrical charge wouldn't just linger in the door, it'd find the quickest way into the ground and dissipate. That said; If the caster were to use an electrical spell on the door at the same time the enemy hits the door, would the damage strike the bugger through the door? What about if the caster were to touch a metallic object that multiple enemies are touching as well?

[Ciaran Barnes]

Sangerine
You are correct that water itself is not a good conductor, and that it is actually the minerals in the water that are good conductors. The description of Create Water says it is "just like clear rain water", but I think a body of water will be present very rarely.

Regardless, the biggest problem I see with this also trying to decide on the secondary effects of fire, cold, acid, etc. Do we want to deal with cathing fire, clothing and equipment being reduced to rags, liquid containers cracking when the contents freeze and expand, broken bones, illness, infection, horrendous scarring, and other such real world outcomes? We can handwaive some of it with the use of even low-level magic, but I don't think extra realism always serves the game well.

[Goddity]

From a physics perspective, the reason electricity is dangerous is because it is trying to get from the source (In this case the casters hand) to the ground. It flows through the person which is what harms them. (As a side note, do you think we could work out the approximate voltage/current of the different lightning spells?). The electricity would have no reason to then go up from the ground into the people and then back down. So from a physics perspective, no for number 1.

In that video, the electricity flowed through them because the last guy wasn't wearing shoes and the electricity could flow to the ground. If the door touches the ground, or even the wall, it would be grounded and harmlessly discharge. If somehow, it wasn't touching those, and everyone who touches it was wearing leather shoes except the last guy then yes you could do damage to them all, although they would take equal damage. If they are wearing leather shoes then they have protection. If the door is grounded then nothing would happen. So no for number 2.

I thought they taught this stuff in high school?

[Goth Guru]

It's magic energy. I would give the shocker the +3 to hit the target touching the same piece of metal. It would go to the closest target touching the metal. That's how I would rule if I was the GM.

A door that stores and accumulates electrical damage sounds cool. Someone should put that in a dungeon or lair.