I'm currently starting a Summoner, and I'm not sure about a combat style. I'm a Master Summoner, so I'll be relying on my summons to kill stuff, but I'm not sure what my character should do when not summoning or buffing.
Acid Splash doesn't seem like a viable combat ability.
What are people's opinions on getting a repeater?
I'm currently starting a Summoner, and I'm not sure about a combat style. I'm a Master Summoner, so I'll be relying on my summons to kill stuff, but I'm not sure what my character should do when not summoning or buffing.
Acid Splash doesn't seem like a viable combat ability.
What are people's opinions on getting a repeater?
I couldn't find a light repeating crossbow in the prd, only a repeating crossbow - is that what you are referring to?
If you are ready to burn a feat for a weapon proficiency, then I would rather say get composite longbow for that - it will have the "repeating" quality already "built-in" :-)What kind of skill focus would you want to get otherwise? Might be interesting if you try to go the eldritch heritage route there...
Generally speaking ranged weaponry is probably your best option. Melee certainly is doable - I sugest weapon finesse in that case - but more risky and more feat intensive.
Ah, sorry, just realized you are half-elf and get the skill focus anyway. I guess you are referring to ancestral weapon to get a weapon proficiency.
If that is the case, I would take the skill focus - being proficient in a single specific weapon would be too risky for me and not really worth it.
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I'm currently starting a Summoner, and I'm not sure about a combat style. I'm a Master Summoner, so I'll be relying on my summons to kill stuff, but I'm not sure what my character should do when not summoning or buffing.
Acid Splash doesn't seem like a viable combat ability.
What are people's opinions on getting a repeater?
I couldn't find a light repeating crossbow in the prd, only a repeating crossbow - is that what you are referring to?
If you are ready to burn a feat for a weapon proficiency, then I would rather say get composite longbow for that - it will have the "repeating" quality already "built-in" :-)What kind of skill focus would you want to get otherwise? Might be interesting if you try to go the eldritch heritage route there...
Generally speaking ranged weaponry is probably your best option. Melee certainly is doable - I sugest weapon finesse in that case - but more risky and more feat intensive.
It's likely he's dumped Strength a little bit and so a Composite Longbow is out. Or he just thinks Crossbows are cool; if so there's nothing we can do for him.
It all comes down to one question, doesn't it? Are you going to be an archer?
If the answer is "no" then it doesn't much matter which weapon you choose. It'll serve as a fun distraction while your summons do the heavy lifting. You'll generally only focus on creatures not currently engaged in melee (without precise shot it's at -4), and you won't ever be able to dish out damage in any significant capacity. If you aren't going to invest in the weapon, the crossbow is a decent option compared to it's rival: the longbow. You'll be able to keep a shield equipped, and cannot benefit from your strength score.
If the answer is "yes" then you need to decide if you want to go Repeating Crossbow or Longbow. Their crit ranges are roughly equal, and you can use a buckler with either of them so you won't suffer on AC. The differences come down to this: Longbows can benefit from a strength score, can use Manyshot, and negate your shield bonus on any round you attack during. Repeating Crossbows will keep your AC bonus on every round other than when you are reloading your crossbow, and can flexibly change between all three types of shield (buckler, light, heavy).
I think trading in the skill focus for a weapon is a great idea if you don't have a mind towards putting a single skill to excellent use. Without specialization (like Itimidate or Use Magic Device) it's sort of a wasted boon.
Ah, sorry, just realized you are half-elf and get the skill focus anyway. I guess you are referring to ancestral weapon to get a weapon proficiency.
If that is the case, I would take the skill focus - being proficient in a single specific weapon would be too risky for me and not really worth it.
Sangalor, the Half-Elf ability gives you proficiency with a single type of weapon (as the feat), not just a single specific weapon.
Sangalor, the Half-Elf ability gives you proficiency with a single type of weapon (as the feat), not just a single specific weapon.Ah, sorry, just realized you are half-elf and get the skill focus anyway. I guess you are referring to ancestral weapon to get a weapon proficiency.
If that is the case, I would take the skill focus - being proficient in a single specific weapon would be too risky for me and not really worth it.
Hm, checked it online and think you are right. I thought there was some errata being mentioned by a dev which stated that it was limited to one specific weapon, and that there was a lot of disappointment voiced on the boards :-/ I seem to have benn mistaken here.
OK, that's better then. In this case I would think that the whip would be a great option, since the new UC whip mastery feats chain allows you to do great things with it. Loading up combat maneuver feats is an option here (as is getting quick draw, lots of whips and dropping them on a failed attempt). Plus you can "whip" your eidolon to fight for you :-P
Ah, and just for the record: I like crossbows. Especially keen crossbows. And keen crossbows with impaling critical and similar feats even more ;-P
I have not yet seen the real benefit of the repeating ones that makes me want to invest a feat into it though :-/
Ah, and just for the record: I like crossbows. Especially keen crossbows. And keen crossbows with impaling critical and similar feats even more ;-P
I have not yet seen the real benefit of the repeating ones that makes me want to invest a feat into it though :-/
Not having to spend a feat on rapid reload.
It all comes down to one question, doesn't it? Are you going to be an archer?
If the answer is "no" then it doesn't much matter which weapon you choose. It'll serve as a fun distraction while your summons do the heavy lifting. You'll generally only focus on creatures not currently engaged in melee (without precise shot it's at -4), and you won't ever be able to dish out damage in any significant capacity. If you aren't going to invest in the weapon, the crossbow is a decent option compared to it's rival: the longbow. You'll be able to keep a shield equipped, and cannot benefit from your strength score.
....
Apparantly there is a weapon enhancement called agile in the Pathfinder Field Society guide. It supposedly costs +1 and allows you to use dexterity for damage.
I don't know if it applies to ranged weapons or is allowed to use for the OP, but if it does it would remove the STR advantage of a composite longbow compared to a crossbow.
Not having to spend a feat on rapid reload.Ah, and just for the record: I like crossbows. Especially keen crossbows. And keen crossbows with impaling critical and similar feats even more ;-P
I have not yet seen the real benefit of the repeating ones that makes me want to invest a feat into it though :-/
Well, but that's another feat you invest there. I understand your line of thought with the proficiency gained for "free" as a half-elf, but I still don't see the bonus here. I would simply go with bow/short bow, then you get the iterative attacks anyway and do not need more feats for it.
For a fighter the situation would be different IMO: He gets enough feats to make a crossbow a really cool weapon :-)
Not having to spend a feat on rapid reload.Ah, and just for the record: I like crossbows. Especially keen crossbows. And keen crossbows with impaling critical and similar feats even more ;-P
I have not yet seen the real benefit of the repeating ones that makes me want to invest a feat into it though :-/
Well, but that's another feat you invest there. I understand your line of thought with the proficiency gained for "free" as a half-elf, but I still don't see the bonus here. I would simply go with bow/short bow, then you get the iterative attacks anyway and do not need more feats for it.
For a fighter the situation would be different IMO: He gets enough feats to make a crossbow a really cool weapon :-)
I don't have proficiency with bows though, hm.
I don't have proficiency with bows though, hm.
Cheapy, you're using the half-elf racial trait to trade out Skill Focus with Martial or Exotic Weapon Proficiency, aren't you? Just choose Longbow instead of Repeating Crossbow.
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In PFS, I run pretty much this exact same character concept, excepting that I use a Heavy Repeating Crossbow. I had the same thought...since a Summoner doesnt really want to multiclass that much, its kind of silly to take the skill proficiency in place of the free Weapon Proficiency granted, esp since you can get an exotic one.
It flat out sucks, honestly. My build is:
LVL 6
HE, Summoner
STR: 7
DEX: 16 (+2 Racial)
CON: 16
INT: 12
WIS: 10
CHA: 16 (+1 lvl 4)
HP 51
Feats:
1 Point Blank Shot
1 Exotic: Heavy Repeating Crossbow (replaced Adaptability)
3 Deadly Aim
5 Precise Shot
I took Elven Reflexes (+2 Initiative) and Undead Slayer (+1 damage vs undead) traits, the Undead one is for following Pharasma.
Basically, I find myself with +6 to hit when I use Deadly Aim, or +8 to hit if I dont (using +1 HRC), for a total of 1d10 + 5 if I use deadly aim, 1d10 + 6 if I am within 30 feet, 1d10+7 if its undead within 30'.
At level 6, this is pointless wasted damage and feats...at lower level it was pretty awesome. Now that I am facing tougher things, frankly I end up casting more frequently than I do anything else...
Typical combat:
first round: Haste (hits group too, makes my bipedal vomit monster run really really fast and get an extra attack on subsequent rounds)
second round: Shield/Mage Armor/Bark Skin
third round: one of whatever is left
fourth round: one of the protection spells, or healing possibly
fifth round: enlarge if necessary, bulls strength, evo surge...a bunch of options.
Usually by this point whatever we are fighting is toast, especially because the rest of the melees in the party got haste too.
My Eidolon does so much damage on a successful hit cycle that most things die, and shooting my HRC is pointless. It has few enough HP as it is (in PFS, it only gets half hit die per level, gay) so I have to watch it specifically... and thats why I have so many HP, so I can eat up some of hits against it...but with enough protection spells on it, its AC is something like 32...so now it can live in most scenarios.
I just dont see shooting the bow anymore at all...its pointless, and now I wish I had those feats back for more important stuff, meta magic feats to extend my spells, things to help me stay out of sight and out of mind of the BBEG, things to make my eidolon even more stupidgood.
So, I'd suggest being cautious about looking for the mid-end game...or you find yourself in my position, and with 3 wasted feats, and at least 1 wasted trait.
Good luck, YMMV.
I don't have proficiency with bows though, hm.Cheapy, you're using the half-elf racial trait to trade out Skill Focus with Martial or Exotic Weapon Proficiency, aren't you? Just choose Longbow instead of Repeating Crossbow.
That's exactly what I was referring to :-P
Still the whip has some appeal... Hm, gotta remember that for future half-elf builds :-)
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Especially keen crossbows.
Moderate transmutation; CL 10th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, keen edge; Price +1 bonus.
Yea, still not sure what to do with this guy. I won't do the repeating crossbow route. The main reason I didn't want bow was to avoid taking all the archery feats, but I think putting it in UMD and using wands is a better idea.
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In PFS, I run pretty much this exact same character concept, excepting that I use a Heavy Repeating Crossbow. I had the same thought...since a Summoner doesnt really want to multiclass that much, its kind of silly to take the skill proficiency in place of the free Weapon Proficiency granted, esp since you can get an exotic one.
It flat out sucks, honestly. My build is:
LVL 6
HE, SummonerSTR: 7
DEX: 16 (+2 Racial)
CON: 16
INT: 12
WIS: 10
CHA: 16 (+1 lvl 4)HP 51
Feats:
1 Point Blank Shot
1 Exotic: Heavy Repeating Crossbow (replaced Adaptability)
3 Deadly Aim
5 Precise ShotI took Elven Reflexes (+2 Initiative) and Undead Slayer (+1 damage vs undead) traits, the Undead one is for following Pharasma.
Basically, I find myself with +6 to hit when I use Deadly Aim, or +8 to hit if I dont (using +1 HRC), for a total of 1d10 + 5 if I use deadly aim, 1d10 + 6 if I am within 30 feet, 1d10+7 if its undead within 30'.
At level 6, this is pointless wasted damage and feats...at lower level it was pretty awesome. Now that I am facing tougher things, frankly I end up casting more frequently than I do anything else...
Typical combat:
first round: Haste (hits group too, makes my bipedal vomit monster run really really fast and get an extra attack on subsequent rounds)
second round: Shield/Mage Armor/Bark Skin
third round: one of whatever is left
fourth round: one of the protection spells, or healing possibly
fifth round: enlarge if necessary, bulls strength, evo surge...a bunch of options.Usually by this point whatever we are fighting is toast, especially because the rest of the melees in the party got haste too.
My Eidolon does so much damage on a successful hit cycle that most things die, and shooting my HRC is pointless. It has few enough HP as it is (in PFS, it only gets half hit die per level, gay) so I have to watch it specifically... and thats why I have so many HP, so I can eat up some of hits against it...but with enough protection spells on it, its AC is...
How's your encumbrance with a 7 STR going? That gives you a 23 lbs light load, and your Heavy Repeating Crossbow is 12 lbs, more than half of that.
Yea, still not sure what to do with this guy. I won't do the repeating crossbow route. The main reason I didn't want bow was to avoid taking all the archery feats, but I think putting it in UMD and using wands is a better idea.
Have you considered going the Intimidate route? Dazzling display is a full round action that hits everything within 30', and shaken applies a -2 to just about everything (including saves!). It's a great option when you don't know what to do with your turn. In fact, I absolutely love it on animal companions.
Yea, still not sure what to do with this guy. I won't do the repeating crossbow route. The main reason I didn't want bow was to avoid taking all the archery feats, but I think putting it in UMD and using wands is a better idea.Have you considered going the Intimidate route? Dazzling display is a full round action that hits everything within 30', and shaken applies a -2 to just about everything (including saves!). It's a great option when you don't know what to do with your turn. In fact, I absolutely love it on animal companions.
I do want to avoid going near enemies, and my feats are slotted for crafting and buffing the summons.
Side note: any recommendations on the 3rd first level spell? I have Enlarge Person (for our guy with a natural reach of 10') and Lesser Rejuvenate Person.
Unfetter seems like scroll material.
Especially keen crossbows.** spoiler omitted **
Oh, thanks for pointing that out! The d20pfsrd entry has the "melee" statement omitted, though it is only printed in the melee weapon properties table... :-/
Well, then replace keen with improved critical, though the cost is higher :-)
Really strange though: I definitely recall a few published adventure where we could gain keen bows - probably a mistake there :-/
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I also play a PFS Summoner simular to this.
It's
Str 14
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 13
Wis 10
Cha 16
My exotic weapon is a whip but I have a faction trait (Andoran forget what it's called) that gives me a composite Longbow. But by essentially 'doubling up' with a good ranged attack and whip I'm fairly effective. I stay out of close combat and at third level just got combat expertise/improved trip which may or may not be filled with ranged feats.
Hm, I am looking at Protean for that nice tanglefoot bag thing.
There are a few nay-sayers in the crowd, but do keep in mind that Summoners are essentially in the same boat as Bards, and Bards make excellent archers.
The archery feats, Arcane Strike, Haste, and at least a half-hearted focus on Dexterity are all you need to remain useful (but not comptetitive) when it comes to archery. Your role should never be that of a damage dealer, as you are a powerful battlefield control agent. However, it's a very real fact that all of the casters with the bard's spell progression (alchemist, summoner, inquisitor) simply don't have enough spells to cast something every round. It's good that you're looking to remain useful in ways other than "I hold the torch" and "I'll shout at him!"
It's worth mentioning that use magic device is an (expensive) way to remain active in combat, and intimidate can be an incredibly beneficial tactic if played carefully. Bonus, both of these skills are based on your primary stat.
My thoughts? Keep skill focus, see if the DM will allow you to take Eldritch Heritage (Sylvan) take Boon companion.
Laugh as your army of summoned minions, eidolon and animal companion destroys all.
Want to know what do do between rounds?
Buy a net.
Entangled foes are easier for your eidolon to eat.