Question on changing elements for a wand


Rules Questions

Silver Crusade

Okay, say I have an Elemental Sorcerer, with the Water bloodline. He automatically gets Burning Hands at 3rd level, but it only does cold damage. If he creates a wand of burning hands, does it deal the typical fire damage, or does it deal cold damage? I've been wondering how the abilities that allow you to alter the spell work on spells stored in wands and scrolls.


The burning hands spell you get from your bloodline is fundamentally different than the standard burning hands spell. Effectively, you don't know a version of the spell that can deal fire damage. If you create a wand or scroll of burning hands, it could only contain the modified version you know and will always deal cold damage.

Silver Crusade

Could I use the bloodline arcana ability to alter other spell's elements, such as a fire lightning bolt? Or an acid Snowball?

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Hmm, I think RAW any spell stored in a magic item reverts to its normal version, so you'd get a fire burning hands. However, Dagr Han's interpretation is also very reasonable. I'd just hash it out with your GM so as to be consistent.

One consequence of allowing it would be that scrolls and wands of alternate elements should be available for sale - if you don't want that in your game without the spells using metamagic, then spells should revert to their base elements. If having cold fireball wands appeals to you, then go for it.


I just typed a nice big post about this that just got ate.

Ryric is right, and Dagr Han is wrong. However it break verisimilitude that he is wrong. You only know a cold only version of burning hands. You can't even cast a fire version without taking it as an additional spell known. As a GM, I would allow you to craft the cold version of a burning hands wand, but you would be unable to craft a fire version.

As for your second question. No, you cannot craft a wand of acid snowball. Class abilities, feats, traits only affect item crafting if they are specified to. As such, your bloodline arcana to alter the spells damage type applies only to spells you cast, and not to crafted items.

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Crafting these items requires casting the spell in question. Any non-metamagic change you make to the spell (including caster level) should also change the resultant item.


Cyrad wrote:
Crafting these items requires casting the spell in question. Any non-metamagic change you make to the spell (including caster level) should also change the resultant item.

But we know for a fact they don't.

For instance we know wayang spell hunter and magical lineage do not apply.


No, it doesn't even break verisimilitude:

Evoker: I put my hands together, thumb's touching, fingers spread out wide, and say "Evocatus Inflamare!" and fire shoots out of my hands in a short cone.
Necromancer: I put my hands together, thumb's touching, fingers spread out wide, and say "Evocatus Inflamare!" and fire shoots out of my hands in a short cone.
Diviner: I put my hands together, thumb's touching, fingers spread out wide, and say "Evocatus Inflamare!" and fire shoots out of my hands in a short cone.
Dragonblooded Sorcerer: I put my hands together, thumb's touching, fingers spread out wide, and say "Evocatus Inflamare!" and fire shoots out of my hands in a short cone.
Water-Sorcerer: I put my hands together, thumb's touching, fingers spread out wide, and say "Evocatus Inflamare!" and COLD shoots out of my hands in a short cone.

Everything is the same, the somatic and verbal components are the same, but for that last guy, he gets cold instead of fire because of the blood that flows in his veins.

Evoker: I spend 8 hours carving the stick, inscribing mystical runes, varnishing it with a special magical concoction that cost 375p and is made up of various magical ingredients, and during the process I grasp the new wand and say "Evocatus Inflamare!". At the end of the day, I have a wand of Burning Hands that shoots fire.
Necromancer: I spend 8 hours carving the stick, inscribing mystical runes, varnishing it with a special magical concoction that cost 375p and is made up of various magical ingredients, and during the process I grasp the new wand and say "Evocatus Inflamare!". At the end of the day, I have a wand of Burning Hands that shoots fire.
Diviner: I spend 8 hours carving the stick, inscribing mystical runes, varnishing it with a special magical concoction that cost 375p and is made up of various magical ingredients, and during the process I grasp the new wand and say "Evocatus Inflamare!". At the end of the day, I have a wand of Burning Hands that shoots fire.
Dragonblood Sorcerer: I spend 8 hours carving the stick, inscribing mystical runes, varnishing it with a special magical concoction that cost 375p and is made up of various magical ingredients, and during the process I grasp the new wand and say "Evocatus Inflamare!". At the end of the day, I have a wand of Burning Hands that shoots fire.
Water-Sorcerer: I spend 8 hours carving the stick, inscribing mystical runes, varnishing it with a special magical concoction that cost 375p and is made up of various magical ingredients, and during the process I grasp the new wand and say "Evocatus Inflamare!". At the end of the day, I have a wand of Burning Hands that shoots FIRE.

Now it's the same, because the blood in the sorcerer's body doesn't alter the stick or the runes or the magical ingredients - all five casters end up creating the same wand.

Works for me.

And it's RAW.

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Claxon wrote:
Cyrad wrote:
Crafting these items requires casting the spell in question. Any non-metamagic change you make to the spell (including caster level) should also change the resultant item.

But we know for a fact they don't.

For instance we know wayang spell hunter and magical lineage do not apply.

That logic doesn't necessarily apply because

1) We're talking about custom bloodline spells and modifications using the bloodline arcana. This has nothing to do with metamagic.

2) Magical lineage does not work with magic item creation (which was never mentioned in any rule or FAQ), because it would otherwise allow a player to cheat the magic item pricing system. This isn't cheating the system.

At the very least, it should work for bloodline spells. You should be able to make a wand of cold burning hands for the same reason I can invent an acid fireball using spell research and craft a wand of it.

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