Returning Disk Thrower Concept. (need help)

[Raziel Azazel]

hi everyone, I have a concept that I want to make work but I'm kinda stumped.

I have the idea for a dexy combatant who uses throwing returning weapons. either Shurikens/Chakrams/Boomerangs etc. The catch is I want to try and make this work without relying on magical weapons. I want a character who has use of returning weapons without being rich enough to have magic weapons.

So far the only thing I can find thats somewhat similar is the Level 5 Shield Champion Brawler Archtype. who has the ability to throw the shield in such a way that it returns to him at the end of his turn. so does anyone have any idea how to apply this mechanic to other thrown weapons like a boomerang?

[Eltacolibre]

Far Strike Monk basically is your best bet for non magical ones. Far Strike Monk are basically like Bullseye (Marvel comics). They can even make at 5th level and higher thrown weapon does the same damage as their unarmed strikes.

[Raziel Azazel]

Eltacolibre wrote:

Far Strike Monk basically is your best bet for non magical ones. Far Strike Monk are basically like Bullseye (Marvel comics). They can even make at 5th level and higher thrown weapon does the same damage as their unarmed strikes.

that actually does look like a pretty awesome build. although unless my character has a blink belt it doesn't really solve the returning weapon problem. I guess he'll just have to carry a lot of boomerangs/chakrams.

[Fruian Thistlefoot]

Shield Champion Brawler?

Basically like captain america but it does return the shield to you.

[Raziel Azazel]

Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:

Shield Champion Brawler?

Basically like captain america but it does return the shield to you.

yeah, that ones already on the list but I was hoping for something smaller to through than shields. thanks anyway.

[chbgraphicarts]

Okay, so, you want to make Tron: Warrior Princess.

Got it.

Buy a Blink-Back Belt

Hang a pair of Chakram from it.

Take Rogue to gain Weapon Finesse and wear Gauntlets so you don't cut yourself on your own Chakram

Take Two-Weapon Fighting and Combat Training - Quick Draw at lv2.

At lv3 you can score Dex to Damage IN MELEE ONLY with your Chakram.

There ya go.

[Raziel Azazel]

chbgraphicarts wrote:

Okay, so, you want to make Tron: Warrior Princess.

Got it.

Buy a Blink-Back Belt

Hang a pair of Chakram from it.

Take Rogue to gain Weapon Finesse and wear Gauntlets so you don't cut yourself on your own Chakram

Take Two-Weapon Fighting and Combat Training - Quick Draw at lv2.

At lv3 you can score Dex to Damage IN MELEE ONLY with your Chakram.

There ya go.

combat training? is that a feat or rogue skill?

[chbgraphicarts]

Haydon Mehmet wrote:

chbgraphicarts wrote:

Okay, so, you want to make Tron: Warrior Princess.

Got it.

Buy a Blink-Back Belt

Hang a pair of Chakram from it.

Take Rogue to gain Weapon Finesse and wear Gauntlets so you don't cut yourself on your own Chakram

Take Two-Weapon Fighting and Combat Training - Quick Draw at lv2.

At lv3 you can score Dex to Damage IN MELEE ONLY with your Chakram.

There ya go.

combat training? is that a feat or rogue skill?

Rogue Talent. It's called Combat Trick (my mistake); it gives you a free Combat Feat.

Don't waste it on Weapon Focus, either; that's Weapon Training, another Rogue Talent.

If you take the Swashbuckler Archetype for Rogue, you can take Combat Trick twice.

[chbgraphicarts]

His Holiness Bob

There's also this cute thing

Human Warpriest

Blessings Air, Law/Good/Chaos
Race Two-Weapon Fighting
CL1 Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Chakram)
CL2
CL3 Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot
CL4
CL5 Quick Draw; Blink-Back Belt
CL6 Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Dual Enhancement
CL7 ???
CL8
CL9 Greater Weapon Focus, ???
CL10
CL11 ???
CL12 Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, ???

[blackbloodtroll]

Chakrams are One-handed Weapons.

Not a light weapon.

Cannot not be finessed, normally.

With Slashing Grace, a Swashbuckler, or Daring Champion Cavalier can finesse them.

[chbgraphicarts]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Chakrams are One-handed Weapons.

Not a light weapon.

Cannot not be finessed, normally.

With Slashing Grace, a Swashbuckler, or Daring Champion Cavalier can finesse them.

Where's it say that?

I looked all over and couldn't find a darn thing about what they were when they're melee weapons, so a link'd be appreciated for my own reference.

[Gisher]

Here are a number of options for getting thrown weapons to return to you.

Magic Items
Blinkback Belt: thrown weapons return to belt
Greater Belt of Mighty Hurling: grants thrown weapons the returning property

Spells
Returning Weapon (bard 2, bloodrager 1, cleric 2, inquisitor 1, magus 1, ranger 1, sorcerer/wizard 2, witch 2)
Communal Returning Weapon (bard 3, cleric 3, inquisitor 2, magus 2, ranger 2, sorcerer/wizard 3, witch 3)

Class Abilities
Bard (Arcane Duelist): the Bladethirst and Mass Bladethirst performances can grant the returning property
Cleric (Forgemaster): the Runeforger ability lets you add the returning property
Magus with the Throwing Magus Arcana: lets you use arcane pool to add the returning property. This can now be achieved using the Magus VMC
Monk (Monk of the Empty Hand): At 11th level you can use ki to add the returning property to an improvised weapon
Paladin (Divine Hunter): can use Divine Bond to add returning to their weapon
Skald (Spell Warrior): can use the Enhance Weapons ability to add the returning property

[Gisher]

chbgraphicarts wrote:

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Chakrams are One-handed Weapons.

Not a light weapon.

Cannot not be finessed, normally.

With Slashing Grace, a Swashbuckler, or Daring Champion Cavalier can finesse them.

Where's it say that?

I looked all over and couldn't find a darn thing about what they were when they're melee weapons, so a link'd be appreciated for my own reference.

I can't find anything in the chakram descriptions either. Maybe it is covered by some general rule that I'm not aware of.

[blackbloodtroll]

Actually, it looks like it is being contested.

I certainly hope they are One-handed weapons. They are in the Heavy Blades Fighter Weapon Group.

Start a rule thread?

[blackbloodtroll]

I have a whole PFS build based off it.

Two-handed Thrower, and everything.

[blackbloodtroll]

Well, I am worried I might not get the answer I want, but I started a thread here.

Go there to FAQ it.

[chbgraphicarts]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Actually, it looks like it is being contested.

I certainly hope they are One-handed weapons. They are in the Heavy Blades Fighter Weapon Group.

They're also in the "Light Blades Category"

Fighter Weapons Groups wrote:

Blades, Heavy: Ankus, dueling sword, bastard sword, chakram, double chicken saber, double walking stick katana, elven curve blade, estoc, falcata, falchion, flambard, greatsword, great terbutje , katana, khopesh, klar, longsword, nine-ring broadsword, nodachi, scimitar, scythe, seven-branched sword, shotel, temple sword, terbutje, and two-bladed sword.

Blades, Light: bayonet, butterfly knife, butterfly sword, chakram, dagger, Deer horn knife, gladius, hunga munga, kama, katar, kerambit, kukri, machete, madu, manople, pata, quadrens, rapier, sawtooth sabre, scizore, shortsword, sica, sickle, starknife, swordbreaker dagger, sword cane, wakizashi, and war razor.

Considering that a Chakram weighs all of 1lb. and are only about 1 foot in diameter, they seem much more like Light Weapons to me than a One-Handed weapon.

[blackbloodtroll]

I seriously hope they are One-handed.

If not, my Paladin is utterly destroyed.

[TarSpartan]

Have you (or anyone else on the thread) ever read Salvatore's "Cleric Quintet?" The protagonist in those books is a cleric/scholar whose main weapon is a pair of adamantine disks on a string that allows them to return after striking. In essence, he carries a combat yo-yo. Not *quite* a thrown weapon, but it has some of the same flavor.

Just don't ask me for game stats for the thing...

[blackbloodtroll]

Well, some Quickdraw Throwing Shields, with a bit of reflavoring(merely looking disc-like) would work.

They are Light Weapons, and would add a bit of defense to your build.

[Imbicatus]

A rope dart might work. It's not really disk shaped, but it's a thrown weapon that can be retrieved as a free action via the rope. It's also a monk weapon, so you can flurry with it via unchained or far strike monk.

[Gisher]

chbgraphicarts wrote:

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Actually, it looks like it is being contested.

I certainly hope they are One-handed weapons. They are in the Heavy Blades Fighter Weapon Group.

They're also in the "Light Blades Category"

Fighter Weapons Groups wrote:

Blades, Heavy: Ankus, dueling sword, bastard sword, chakram, double chicken saber, double walking stick katana, elven curve blade, estoc, falcata, falchion, flambard, greatsword, great terbutje , katana, khopesh, klar, longsword, nine-ring broadsword, nodachi, scimitar, scythe, seven-branched sword, shotel, temple sword, terbutje, and two-bladed sword.

Blades, Light: bayonet, butterfly knife, butterfly sword, chakram, dagger, Deer horn knife, gladius, hunga munga, kama, katar, kerambit, kukri, machete, madu, manople, pata, quadrens, rapier, sawtooth sabre, scizore, shortsword, sica, sickle, starknife, swordbreaker dagger, sword cane, wakizashi, and war razor.

Considering that a Chakram weighs all of 1lb. and are only about 1 foot in diameter, they seem much more like Light Weapons to me than a One-Handed weapon.

They are in the Heavy Blades group, but they aren't in the Light Blades group.

Ultimate Equipment wrote:

BLADES, HEAVY

Bastard sword, chakram, double chicken saber, double walking stick katana, elven curve blade, falcata, falchion, great terbutje, greatsword, katana, khopesh, longsword, nine-ring broadsword, nodachi, rhoka sword, sawtooth sabre, scimitar, scythe, seven-branched sword, shotel, temple sword, terbutje, and two-bladed sword

BLADES, LIGHT
Bayonet, butterfly sword, dagger, dogslicer, gladius, hunga munga, kama, kerambit, kukri, pata, quadrens, rapier, short sword, sica, sickle, starknife, sword cane, swordbreaker dagger, and wakizashi

[Imbicatus]

Gisher wrote:

chbgraphicarts wrote:

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Actually, it looks like it is being contested.

I certainly hope they are One-handed weapons. They are in the Heavy Blades Fighter Weapon Group.

They're also in the "Light Blades Category"

Fighter Weapons Groups wrote:

Blades, Heavy: Ankus, dueling sword, bastard sword, chakram, double chicken saber, double walking stick katana, elven curve blade, estoc, falcata, falchion, flambard, greatsword, great terbutje , katana, khopesh, klar, longsword, nine-ring broadsword, nodachi, scimitar, scythe, seven-branched sword, shotel, temple sword, terbutje, and two-bladed sword.

Blades, Light: bayonet, butterfly knife, butterfly sword, chakram, dagger, Deer horn knife, gladius, hunga munga, kama, katar, kerambit, kukri, machete, madu, manople, pata, quadrens, rapier, sawtooth sabre, scizore, shortsword, sica, sickle, starknife, swordbreaker dagger, sword cane, wakizashi, and war razor.

Considering that a Chakram weighs all of 1lb. and are only about 1 foot in diameter, they seem much more like Light Weapons to me than a One-Handed weapon.

They are in the Heavy Blades group, but they aren't in the Light Blades group.

Ultimate Equipment wrote:

BLADES, HEAVY

Bastard sword, chakram, double chicken saber, double walking stick katana, elven curve blade, falcata, falchion, great terbutje, greatsword, katana, khopesh, longsword, nine-ring broadsword, nodachi, rhoka sword, sawtooth sabre, scimitar, scythe, seven-branched sword, shotel, temple sword, terbutje, and two-bladed sword

BLADES, LIGHT
Bayonet, butterfly sword, dagger, dogslicer, gladius, hunga munga, kama, kerambit, kukri, pata, quadrens, rapier, short sword, sica, sickle, starknife, sword cane, swordbreaker dagger, and wakizashi

They are listed in the light weapons group in Humans of Golarion, but that source is not legal for PFS.

[Doomed Hero]

Anyone who thinks a chakram is a heavy blade has never held one...

[Scott Wilhelm]

As chbgraphicarts, said, you want a Blinkback Belt. What kinds of weapons will you throw? Any kind you want.

Shuriken I think are technically ammunition, not thrown weapons, by which I mean they are destroyed by throwing them, so won't return. Still useful, though.

To go along with the Blinkback Belt, you should take the Quickdraw Feat, then you can make all your iterative attacks as if you were using a bow.

You've got to get yourself a Quickdraw, Throwing Shield. These Shields are thrown as a Free Action, the 'Belt will teleport it instantly back to your hip, and then you will be able to re-draw it as a Free Action.

Theoretically, this is an infinite Free Action looping attack. But of course the rules specifically address this by encouraging the GM to create a limit as to the number of Free Actions one is allowed to take in a round, and he surely will when you show him this! Depending on the number he allows, though, this might be a formidable weapon system which might allow you the shield bonus to your AC and give you several bonus attacks.

Another thing worth considering: the False Opening Feat. It requires Close Quarters Thrower, which allows you to use a Thrown Weapon in melee without provoking AoOs. With False Opening, you allow the Attack of Opporutnity, but then you get a +4 to your AC, and then all of a sudden, your opponent is Flat Footed! If say you also have Snake Fang, you might well get an AoO back at your flat-footed opponent!

[Jodokai]

Here's something:

Agile wrote:

This enhancement can only be placed on a melee weapon which is usable with the Weapon Finesse feat.

Agile weapons are unusually well balanced and responsive. A wielder with the Weapon Finesse feat can choose to apply her Dexterity modifier to damage rolls with the weapon in place of her Strength modifier. This modifier to damage is not increased for two-handed weapons, but is still reduced for off-hand weapons.

Technically, if you put Agile on say, a Dagger, you could get DEX to damage when you throw it.

It says it has to be applied to melee weapons, which a dagger is, but it doesn't say it has to be a melee attack. Now before anyone's panties get in a twist, I realize this isn't the intended use for this, but it seems like it would work if you can sneak it by your GM.