What does the bonus from the "fate's favored" trait count as?


Rules Questions


I mean it says that any luck bonus you get increases by 1 so I'm assuming it's just more luck bonus and not a trait bonus?


Yes, it is luck.

Sczarni

It has it's own type: super-duper-awesome.

Actually, the trait just increases the effects of any luck bonuses you already have:

Fate's Favored wrote:
Whenever you are under the effect of a luck bonus of any kind, that bonus increases by 1

It's not a Trait bonus.


It is a trait bonus which increases anything currently affected by a luck bonus by 1.

Grand Lodge

Trekkie90909 wrote:
It is a trait bonus which increases anything currently affected by a luck bonus by 1.

Incorrect. Fate's Favored does not have a type, as it grants no bonus on its own.

Sczarni

Even if Fate's Favored provided a bonus, since it's not specifically called out as a Trait bonus, it would be utyped.

Not all Traits provide Trait bonuses. Some are untyped, and some are just weird.


Yep. A +1 Luck bonus increased by 1 is a +2 Luck bonus.

Grand Lodge

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Well, if it was a separate bonus, in, and of itself, that was untyped, then, as it is also an increase, it could be considered a "typed" untyped bonus, that, in spite of written rules, doesn't stack.

This would be covered in the unwritten rules.


It's a numerical bonus given by a trait, it is a trait bonus.


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Trekkie90909 wrote:
It's a numerical bonus given by a trait, it is a trait bonus.

That's not how things work.


I'm confused now. Especially by blackbloodtroll's suff. > . <

Grand Lodge

Trekkie90909 wrote:
It's a numerical bonus given by a trait, it is a trait bonus.

That's really not how things work. Not all bonuses granted by traits are trait bonuses, and Fate's Favored doesn't grant a bonus. It increases bonuses gained from other sources, which isn't the same thing.

noble peasant wrote:
I'm confused now. Especially by blackbloodtroll's suff. > . <

Ignore BBT's stuff. He takes any opportunity he can to badmouth the unwriten rules the designers use, even in completely unrelated instances.

Also ignore trekkie's posts, because he's incorrect, as everyone else has noted.

To summarize: Fate's Favored does not, in fact, have a bonus type because it doesn't grant a bonus. It increases any and all luck bonuses you have, but that's not the same as granting a bonus.


noble peasant wrote:
I'm confused now. Especially by blackbloodtroll's suff. > . <

BBT is complaining about an entirely unrelated issue as he tends to do in any thread remotely related to bonus types. Ignore him. Fates Favored does not grant a bonus itself, so there is no type.


If you increase a bonus to a thing, then you have granted a bonus to that thing. The argument that fate's favored's 'increase' is not a bonus is invalid. As for trait/luck/untyped... It's a trait, it provides a bonus, that bonus is a trait bonus.


Wrong on both counts.

Traits do not always grant a Trait bonus. Some are untyped.

Fate's Favored does not grant a bonus of any kind. It increases an existing bonus.

It increases an existing bonus. This is an entirely different matter than adding another, separate bonus.

Fate's Favored transforms a +1 Luck bonus into a +2 Luck bonus, or a +2 into a +3, and so on.

It does not grant a separate, differently typed bonus (otherwise it would say something along the lines of "Whenever you are under the effect of a luck bonus of any kind, you gain a +1 bonus/trait bonus to everything it affects"), and it does not grant a +1 Luck bonus every time you are under the effects of a Luck bonus either (they wouldn't stack, so the ability would never function).

Grand Lodge

Trekkie90909 wrote:
It's a trait, it provides a bonus, that bonus is a trait bonus.

You sure about that?

Natural-Born Leader wrote:
You've always found yourself in positions where others look up to you as a leader, and you can distinctly remember an event from your early childhood where you led several other children to accomplish a goal that each of you individually could not. All cohorts, followers, or summoned creatures under your leadership gain a +1 morale bonus on Will saves to avoid mind-affecting effects. If you ever take the Leadership feat, you gain a +1 trait bonus to your Leadership score.

Look at that, a trait that gives a bonus that ISN'T a trait bonus. How did that even happen?


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Ok, ima operate under the assumption it's just more luck bonus, I'll just double check with my typical pfs GM what he thinks since what the GM says typically goes. Thx peeps. :)

Grand Lodge

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Yeah, I am just joking about something unrelated.


Trekkie90909 wrote:
If you increase a bonus to a thing, then you have granted a bonus to that thing. The argument that fate's favored's 'increase' is not a bonus is invalid. As for trait/luck/untyped... It's a trait, it provides a bonus, that bonus is a trait bonus.

Not correct.

When you increase an existing bonus, you are not granting a bonus, you are increasing an existing one. For example, spells that increase existing natural armor bonus are not a natural armor bonus themselves (because then they wouldn't stack), they aren't a typed bonus unless explicitly stated (such as barkskin, which says it's an enhancement bonus, compared to Animal Growth, which increase the existing natural armor bonus).

Another example would be a Courageous weapon, which increases an existing morale bonus by an amount equal to half the enhancement bonus of the weapon. A +4 courageous weapon wielder, under a Bless Spell, has +3 morale bonus to hit. He doesn't have +1 morale bonus to hit and +2 enhancement bonus to hit.

Not all traits provide trait bonus, some are untyped (like dangerously curious), and there are also a few that are enhancement or morale (Desperate Speed for example gives +5 enhancement bonus to eidolon's speed)

If tomorrow Paizo publishes a magic item that double your trait bonuses, "Favored Fate" doesn't get any benefit (while, say, Reactionary would). And if they create a "bad luck spell" that divide by half, rounding up, your luck bonuses, Favored fate would be affected, because it's an increase to a luck bonus (just like Enlarge is an increase to existing natural armor), not a different bonus


"Bonus" has a rather specific meaning in Pathfinder. Sure for some definition of the word "bonus", FF gives a bonus. But, in the scope of Pathfinder, it would be more correct to say that FF is an effect. The effect is that luck bonuses are 1 more.

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