Godwyn's Themed Unchained Rogue build attempt 1

[Godwyn]

While the unchained rogue disappoints me in many ways, especially the rather lackluster skill edges, it adds just enough new options to try building a character concept I have tried to get off the ground before but was never satisfied with. So here it goes again; advice regarding the actual playability of some of the selected abilities would be great.

Kaylea Octavius V NG Elven Unchained Rogue (Scout) 5/Unchained Barbarian 2
Currently Building at level 7
Str 13
Dex 15 (+2)(+1)
Con 14 (-2)
Int 14 (+2)
Wis 12
Cha 8

F: 5
R: 8
W: 2 +2 v. enchantment from Elf

BAB: 5
Feats
1: Weapon Focus (Elven Curve Blade)
3: Power Attack
5: Furious Focus
7: Blind Fight
Rogue Talent (Minor Magic) (Acid Splash or Ray of Frost)
Rogue Talent (Major Magic) (Obscuring Mist) 2/day
Rage Power (Scent)
Rogue's Edge ? Undecided on Intimidate, Sense Motive, and Perception
Eventually will have all 3, but not until late.
Other Non optional things included to.

Attack with a masterwork weapon at level 7: +11 for 1d10+12 +3d6 with nothing else boosting the damage.

Thoughts going forward were Edge to Intimidate then Cornugon Smash and Hurtful.

Also considered spring attack into circling mongoose as a very thematic darting in and out of the fog sneak attacking each attack.

One Goal is to get Greater Blind Fight, so that concealment will never prevent sneak attacking, not even invisibility, and with only a 20% miss chance with a reroll. Part of the character concept, and seems fun if you can get everyone blind, such as by deeper darkness.

Will save is weak. Still hard to do anything about that on a rogue. Attack bonus is a bit low as well, still same rogue problem as usual.

[Smallfoot]

Godwyn wrote:

One Goal is to get Greater Blind Fight, so that concealment will never prevent sneak attacking, not even invisibility, and with only a 20% miss chance with a reroll. Part of the character concept, and seems fun if you can get everyone blind, such as by deeper darkness.

This could be very effective, but people have pointed out to me that effects like Obscuring Mist and Deeper Darkness can sufficiently hamper the other party members that they won't like it even if it does work well. Or be prepared to do your fighting while separated from the others.

[Secret Wizard]

1. If you are using Unchained, you might as well go with Barbarian VMC. It's really good for Scout Rogues. Barb VMC with the Accurate Stance Rage Power can boost a Rogue's accuracy, their number #1 weakness, way up high.

2. Rogue Edges are not that bad, but most of the power rebalance of the Unchained Rogue comes from Finesse Training. That frees up points at creation to boost defenses or skills.

3. Rogues have VERY little return from investment on Intelligence. Not sure why you are so heavily investing in that.

4. Obscuring Mist is going to a hamper for the whole party I believe.

5. An easier way would be building towards Blend for Major Magic and hiding in plain sight all the time.

[Godwyn]

I had not looked at the VMCs much, I will have to do so.

Obscuring mist on party could be pretty problematic. There are a lot of good options though. May default it back to chill touch for things that are hard to hit, or vanish. Blend sadly ends on an attack, otherwise it would be excellent.

I like skill points, and it wasn't too much investment with the elf +2. If I really felt the points hurting anywhere I could drop it, but I am pretty satisfied with the stat spread.

Free edges are good. Free stuff is rarely bad. The problem with most of the edges is that the abilities are tiered far too high. If they were instead unlocked at 1, 5, 10, and 15, they would almost be decent.

Lets look at climb as an example.
5 ranks no longer denied dex while climbing. Adequate. Available the same level a wizard gets fly.

10 ranks to gain a climb speed of 10, but only on DC 20 or less. For having to be level 10 that is almost laughable. Gaining other modes of movement is hard, so maybe? Except wait. Take a barbarian at level 10. 10 ranks +3 class +6 Str = +19 to climb, at 1/4 speed which for the barbarian equates to 10 feet, the same as the climb speed from the edge. The barbarian can auto succeed the climb check to do the same thing the edge lets you do. 15 ranks to get a climb speed that lets you climb better. Is a climb speed of 10 (1/2 the speed of spider climb, a spell available at level 3) the same difficulty as limited wish?

Gaining a climb speed at level 5 would be useful. A climb speed that can only be used on DCs under 20? At level 5 a 20 DC has a reasonable chance of failure so the edge becomes pretty useful. At 10 ranks? You have to be able to almost auto succeed the DC which lets you climb it anyways.

There are a few good ones. Intimidate, Sense Motive, and Bluff most notably. But for every decent edge, there are many skill edges that are horrible, and some that would be okay 5-10 levels lower.

It just saddened me that a lot of my favourite skills lack anything good from skill edges. It felt like an area with a lot of missed potential.

Sorry I got derailed. The skill edges have been particularly bothering me.

[Havoq]

In regards to your choice of Power Attack:
With a two-handed weapon, you add 1-1/2 times your Dexterity bonus on damage rolls, and with an off-hand weapon, you add half your Dexterity bonus on damage rolls.

(However) ...effects that would increase the multiplier to your Strength bonus on damage rolls (such as the two-handed fighter archetype's overhand chop) do not affect your Dexterity bonus on damage rolls.

[Mystically Inclined]

With that Int, you could work towards Gang Up.

[Godwyn]

Took a look at the VMC options. Barbarian seems one of the worst to me for what I actually took the dip for. I would not get anything I particularly want from it. No fast movement, no Martial weapon proficiency which I require for the ECB or I would have to spend another feat on that anyways.

That said, there are some tempting ones. Oracle, with the revelation giving martial weapon proficiency and the clouded eyes curse fits the character quite well.

Magus for an arcane pool and some arcana would be beneficial. 11 would be a waste though.

Maybe inquisitor for flavor.

Other than that none really do what I want for the feat trade out (for this character).

[Secret Wizard]

Waves Mystery Oracle can grant you sight inside fog as an easily pickable revelation at level 3.

[Rerednaw]

Havoq wrote:

In regards to your choice of Power Attack:

With a two-handed weapon, you add 1-1/2 times your Dexterity bonus on damage rolls, and with an off-hand weapon, you add half your Dexterity bonus on damage rolls.

(However) ...effects that would increase the multiplier to your Strength bonus on damage rolls (such as the two-handed fighter archetype's overhand chop) do not affect your Dexterity bonus on damage rolls.

Sorry was reading the thread and saw this. How is Power Attack == Overhand Chop? OC affects Str damage mod, PA is modified by weapon class. Or am I missing something? Sorry no sleep things fuzzy. :)