Tumor familiar - wand and extract use

[Duncan7291]

What are the specific mechanics used by tumor familiar to use wands and extracts on me, its master? Other than Tumor familiar discovery what other feats do I need (thinking improved familiar)? Is there a way to do this with hedgehog or other familiar with plus to will saves? How does 3rd level ability, deliver touch spells, work in this context?

[Atticus Blackstone]

For wand use I would recommend looking into improved familiar...

[Joesi]

I think it's a gray area. That said, you could be pretty sure of being able to do so with many improved familiars. PFS particularly allows only something like brownies, imps, lyrakien azatas, or quasits to so so. Best to take one with high charisma if possible, so it can pass its UMD checks.

Familiars —even ones that are technically part of the alchemist— would still need to have an infused extract for them to be able to apply it. An item like Poisoner's Gloves is a convenient way to do so.

Alchemist version of spells never really use the touch mechanic, making the familiar's ability to deliver touch spells useless for alchemist spells as far as I know.

[Doctor Drokk]

The "deliver touch spells" and "share spells" features are not entirely useless for an alchemist with a tumour familiar.

tumour familiar wrote:

An alchemist's extracts and mutagens are considered spells for the purposes of familiar abilities like share spells and deliver touch spells.

What this means is that the tumour familiar can use your extracts the same as you can (this is the effect of "share spells") and it can also deliver extracts via touch if you have the infusion discovery. You need the infusion discovery because that's the only way that your extracts can affect anyone apart from yourself and your familiar.

Poisoner's Gloves should work too, although in PFS your tumour familiar will need the Extra Item Slot (Hands) feat. Plus of course the familiar needs hands in the first place. With this item, you can load the gloves with two infusions (one per hand) each day and the familiar can then deliver those infusions using touch attacks, or slam attacks if it has them.

[Duncan7291]

Thanks for clarification. That is what I had kind of pieced together but wasn't entirely sure. Is it worth the amount of feats necessary to pull this off in PFS? Im building a grenadier.

[Doctor Drokk]

Drokk will get a monkey familiar and poisoner's gloves, but probably not bother with improved familiar. Familiars don't get to use wands in PFS and are basically limited to use-activated or always-on magic items. The relevant FAQ is here.

[Joesi]

Doctor Drokk wrote:

The "deliver touch spells" and "share spells" features are not entirely useless for an alchemist with a tumour familiar.

I'm aware that share spells wouldn't be. I was only referring to "deliver touch spells" not "share spells". "deliver touch spells" is the useless part.

Doctor Drokk wrote:

What this means is that the tumour familiar can use your extracts the same as you can (this is the effect of "share spells") and it can also deliver extracts via touch if you have the infusion discovery. You need the infusion discovery because that's the only way that your extracts can affect anyone apart from yourself and your familiar.

I personally disagree, but it's an unclear scenario. Alchemist extracts cannot/are not activated via touch (even if the spell says so), hence a familiar couldn't cast them on anyone even with infusion.

It's a reasonable point that tumor familiar particularly points out the deliver touch spells capability, but it doesn't say anything else about it. It seems strange that an alchemist that has no ability to cast spells by touch would gain that ability with a familiar (through the familiar).

[Doctor Drokk]

The alchemist does have the ability to deliver "spells" by touch.

There are a number of "communal" spells on the alchemist spell list, such as communal resist energy. Granted that the alchemist does not cast spells like other magic using classes, nevertheless the spell descriptions used for alchemist extracts do not differ from those used for true casters.

An alchemist can explicitly only use communal spells if he prepares them as infusions, according to the rules.

ultimate combat wrote:

A Note on Alchemists: Dispensing communal formulae to
creatures requires that the alchemist have the infusion discovery. Without it, the alchemist cannot use communal spells as formulae.

But there is nothing at all in the spell description or the alchemist class features to say that when using an infusion of a communal spell the effect is not delivered to the other recipients by touch. We follow the spell description.

Of course, you might think that it would be more flavourful for the alchemist to pass around a bubbling vial of liquid for his comrades to sip from. That would be a great house rule in my opinion. That would probably be how I'd run things in a home game. But it isn't the rule.