| Mukluk |
Hi all. I'm playing a summoner for the first time and have questions regarding Slam. If you have a bipedal eidolon with no extra limbs, and using a shield with the shield proficiency, can it still slam while holding the shield? My DM believes that it could be allowed but you would lose any benefits the shield provides until the next round (each time you slam). This sounds logical but I couldn't find anything official on these forums about it so I wanted to ask.
2nd: The slam evolution requires a set of arms but it doesn't say the specifics of how the attack is performed (both arms crash down?, ram them with your shoulder?) Can slams be performed in situations like grappling where only one arm is free?
Thanks!
| Claxon |
If your eidolon is using a shield to make a shield slam, it needs
Improved Shield Bash (Combat)
You can protect yourself with your shield, even if you use it to attack.
Prerequisite: Shield Proficiency.
Benefit: When you perform a shield bash, you may still apply the shield's shield bonus to your AC.
Normal: Without this feat, a character that performs a shield bash loses the shield's shield bonus to AC until his next turn (see Equipment).
Just because it's an eidolon it still follows the rules for attacks made with weapons.
That being said, the slam natural attack that you use evolution points to get, is a natural weapon and doesn't provide an AC bonus because it's not a shield. The slam natural attack is throwing a part of your body into the enemy. Likely with at least one arm, but a slam natural attack has never been clearly defined as a specific part of the body.
| Melkiador |
For an eidolon, each slam attack requires two arms. The APG rules are quite explicit on this point.
Can you quote this explicit text? Last I remember, slam was a very loosely worded ability with no clear indication of how it worked. I'm not sure if unchained clarified it though.
It's a pretty weird setup though. If slam requires both arms, then getting reach evolution on your slam means that both arms must have reach.
| Mukluk |
David knott 242 wrote:For an eidolon, each slam attack requires two arms. The APG rules are quite explicit on this point.Can you quote this explicit text? Last I remember, slam was a very loosely worded ability with no clear indication of how it worked. I'm not sure if unchained clarified it though.
It's a pretty weird setup though. If slam requires both arms, then getting reach evolution on your slam means that both arms must have reach.
In the case of Reach:
"One of an eidolon’s attacks is capable of striking at foes at a distance. Pick one attack. The eidolon’s reach with that attack increases by 5 feet."
I thought reach was applied on a per attack basis, not per limb basis, so I hadn't had any doubts on that unless something changed.
| Canthin |
David knott 242 wrote:For an eidolon, each slam attack requires two arms. The APG rules are quite explicit on this point.Can you quote this explicit text? Last I remember, slam was a very loosely worded ability with no clear indication of how it worked. I'm not sure if unchained clarified it though.
It's a pretty weird setup though. If slam requires both arms, then getting reach evolution on your slam means that both arms must have reach.
Unchained says
Slam (Ex): The eidolon can deliver a devastating slam attack. This attack is a primary attack. The slam deals 1d8 points of damage (2d6 if Large, 2d8 if Huge). The eidolon must have the limbs (arms) evolution to take this evolution.
Alternatively, the eidolon can replace the claws from its base form with this slam attack (this still costs 1 evolution point). This evolution can be selected more than once, up to the number of the eidolon’s limbs (arms) evolutions.
Bipeds have limbs (arms) and limbs (legs) so they can only have 1 slam unless they gain more limbs (arms) through evolutions.
| Mukluk |
My original goal was to have an Eidolon that could make use of a shield, and use slam as its primary attack. Is it the consensus that that is not possible until or unless you get an extra "limbs (arms)"? Or is there any way around this such as performing slam while still holding the shield (not a shield slam) or holding the shield with a tentacle? (not sure if that is even possible)
| Melkiador |
@Canthin
Yes but, that says the evolution requires limbs(arms) but it doesn't actually say what kind of attack a slam is. What part of your arms is actually being used to slam? Hand? Elbow? Shoulder? If the attack can be done with a single arm or must use both is still a mystery. Can you slam in a grapple? If the slam takes both arms does it qualify as a two handed attack? I'd really hoped that unchained would have clarified this by now.
Edit note: I was being a bit hyperbolic but you can never receive a two handed bonus from a slam as it is a light attack.
| Canthin |
@Canthin
Yes but, that says the evolution requires limbs(arms) but it doesn't actually say what kind of attack a slam is. What part of your arms is actually being used to slam? Hand? Elbow? Shoulder? If the attack can be done with a single arm or must use both is still a mystery. Can you slam in a grapple? If the slam takes both arms does it qualify as a two handed attack? I'd really hoped that unchained would have clarified this by now.
Agreed. It would have been nice to be spelled out more. It is pretty inconsistent with creatures that have slams. Some have two arms and get two slams per round (though the standard slam damage in the Bestiary is lower than an Eidolon's). Some creatures don't have limbs at all (oozes) and get a slam.
Can you use Slam as a secondary natural attack (at -5 and 1/2 STR) if you use a weapon in one of your limbs(arms)? (or are they both "used up" in order to deliver the slam?)
Could you Captain Kirk Double Overhand Chop a slam for 1.5xSTR? (if you have more than one natural attack that is, see below)
Do you need both limbs free to slam?
Does it follow the rule of "If a creature only has 1 natural attack, that attack gets 1.5xSTR"? <-- Ochre Jelly seems to say yes.
Power attacking a slam gives you? (Does it count as a one handed weapon or two handed?)