White Hair Witch free 'attempt to grapple that foe with her hair' question

[KommandantVince]

So I have been looking for a while for this answer and not be able to find it (if it has already been answered please point me to the thread).

I have seen many people say the white hair witch's hair is like the universal monster rule 'Grab', but it is not the same and is different in several ways. So my question is can you use the ability of the hair to maintain a grapple? The ability says 'attempt to grapple' which to me says I can make any kind of grapple CM check and a check can be used to either start or maintain a grapple. Where Grab is very clear you can only 'attempts to start a grapple' with the ability. I have put both abilities at the bottom.

Now you can ask how can you do this? Normally grapple is a standard action and you can not use your hair attack also .. there are ways to get a free grapple check and still be able to use your hair ... the easiest is a level in Maneuver Master Monk (MMM) as part of a full round action can make any CM along with attacks. And I know this is kind of backwards and stupid and I would not do it this way but it proves how you can get to this point. So for my first action in the full round I use the MMM CM to grapple someone with my hands, then I attack with my hair and hit them which triggers 'attempt to grapple' .. so can my hair now maintain and do damage or any other maintain action?

White Hair Witch:
"In addition, whenever the hair strikes a foe, the witch can attempt to grapple that foe with her hair as a free action* without provoking an attack of opportunity, using her Intelligence modifier in place of her Strength modifier when making the combat maneuver check."

Grab:
'If a creature with this special attack hits with the indicated attack (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity.'

[Lost Lich]

if you attampt a grapple and succed it the target and you get the grappled condition. Since you use the white haired witchs hair to grapple only your opponent gets the grapple condition and is not freed of it unless he makes the roll.

Also White Hair Witchs grab attack IS indeed just like the monster rule. You make an attack and then after striking and hitting you get your free grab roll.

So if you do grapple the guy now, you can do whatever you could do during a grapple condition with him now. But it consumes your rounds normally since your hair is of course still you and no alternative being ^^ but instead of being limited to attacking him with a light weapon or taking an extra increased concentration check now you can just impale him with a spear or cast a spell whatever. This class is pretty much a combat maneuvre caster over reach ^^

[Aydin D'Ampfer]

Just so there is no confusion, as I have seen this come up: If you grapple a target at, say, 10ft reach with the hair, you must bring the grappled target into an adjacent square, else the grapple fails. This means that you cannot hold a target at reach, and cast spells/attack with reach weapons with no chance of them responding.

[Lost Lich]

oh that is sad, welp guess another class just got rather useless and unsightly. How come they made it that way, what is that class even supposed to be now xD

[Cavall]

Where's the ruling for that adjacent part?

[Jeff Merola]

Cavall wrote:

Where's the ruling for that adjacent part?

General grapple rules that are not overridden by the WHW:

Quote:

If you successfully grapple a creature that is not adjacent to you, move that creature to an adjacent open space (if no space is available, your grapple fails).

[Cavall]

So basically once you get like a 20 foot reach the character flies across the field by your hair? Kind of negates having the "pull" action on the hair doesn't it?

[Jeff Merola]

The archetype was most likely written by someone who didn't understand the grappling rules.

That said, "pull" isn't fully redundant, as it:

Allows you to move something that you might not want adjacent to you a bit closer.

Works on things that are immune to being grappled

[Cavall]

Is there to your knowledge a feat that allows them to keep said grappled person at range?

[Jeff Merola]

Not that I'm aware of, sadly.