i'm makin' Captain America, need some help with his class

[Seneh Gibbraneh]

I know of the "captain Andoran" build, but i was thinkin along other lines...

lv 20 (+ up to 6-7 mythic, maybe, if needed...) of ether:

strategist luring cavalier or

divine hunter paladin or

a tactician fighter... what do you think?

oh, and where do i find the advanced template?

[Green Smashomancer]

Shield Champion Brawler? Even get to bounce your shield off of stuff.

[LazarX]

Shield Champion Brawler with good Int and Wisdom stats. And well above average point buy.

Depending on the author, his physical stats are either at the top of Human scale or a bit greater given that he has bounced the Hulk off of his feet.

[Deadmanwalking]

Well, thematically, Paladin is a solid choice, perhaps the most solid.

Mechanically, Shield Champion Brawler is likely the way to go, though Slayer for Shield Mastery early is also a possibility (particularly with the Vanguard Archetype). Multi-classing the two (or even all three) is a valid choice in a high level game.

[ElSilverWind]

Dreamy blue eyes . . . *cough*. Uhh I-I mean, lot of strength, Dex, and Con . . . And charisma. M-Maybe a few points in perform.

[VRMH]

If Cap isn't a paladin... then who is?

[Entryhazard]

VRMH wrote:

If Cap isn't a paladin... then who is?

Superman?

[Cap. Darling]

VRMH wrote:

If Cap isn't a paladin... then who is?

Roland.

[JohnHawkins]

Cap. Darling wrote:

VRMH wrote:

If Cap isn't a paladin... then who is?

Roland.

That is unarguable

[Deadmanwalking]

VRMH wrote:

If Cap isn't a paladin... then who is?

Yup. :)

He might've multi-classed for the Feats and skills, though. And the unarmed combat.

I'd never do a build designed to actually represent him without at least 2-4 levels of Paladin, though.

[Eltacolibre]

Made cap awhile ago anyway quoting it here:

Eltacolibre wrote:

Captain America

NG Human Shield Champion [Brawler] 12

Abilities: Unarmed Damage or Shield damage (2d6), Brawler Cunning, Martial Flexibility (Immediate action), Martial Training, Brawler's Furry, AC Bonus+2, Knockout 2/day, Throw Shield, Returning Shield.

Feats:Improved Unarmed Strike (b), Exotic weapon proficiency: Throwing Shield (1), Improved Shield Bash(b), Shield Focus(b), Power Attack(3),Combat Expertise(5), Weapon Focus (Medium Shield)(b), Greater Weapon (Medium Shield) (7),Shield Slam(b), Weapon Specialization (Medium Shield) (9), Greater Weapon Specialization (medium shield) (11), Shield Master(b), Improved Critical (Medium Shield)(b)

Notes:

-Put all your gold into your shield...seriously with the lack of brawler's strike, you'll need to make your shield magic asap, preferably a +3 shield as soon as possible to bypass most damage reduction. Making it Adamantine is very thematic. Making the shield deflecting is optional and would only do it when my shield is a least a +3 adamantine.

-Shield damage power spike at level 12, when you can use your unarmed strike damage for your shield damage.

-Use martial flexibility when you actually need to gain a maneuver, like improved grapple/trip etc...don't forget Equipment tricks (Shield), very great use of martial flexibility in general. In early levels (level 1-2), I would recommend to use it for deadly aim or power attack depending of your needs.

-If you can retrain, I'll get rid of throwing shield as soon as you hit level 3, since it's when shield champion ability kicks in.

-Still not very clear if brawler qualifies to some of the shields feats without TWF since it technically only works when you are using Brawler's furry if that's not the case, drop missile shield, you can always access it with martial flexibility.

[Seerow]

Thirding brawler. Possibly with the advanced template of you can convince your dm to allow it

[Avenger]

Sacred Shield paladin.

[Deadmanwalking]

Eltacolibre wrote:

Made cap awhile ago anyway quoting it here:

I did the same, though that's a pre-ACG build and thus doesn't include Shield Champion (which I'd definitely include in lieu of Sohei...and with a few more levels) or Slayer (which would likely replace Ranger, though it'd lose a few levels to Brawler).

[Charon's Little Helper]

VRMH wrote:

If Cap isn't a paladin... then who is?

Michael from The Dresden Files.

[Charon's Little Helper]

LazarX wrote:

And well above average point buy.

Depending on the author, his physical stats are either at the top of Human scale or a bit greater given that he has bounced the Hulk off of his feet.

Remember - any point-buy over 1-3pts is already above average. A 20-25pt buy - especially with a couple of stat-ups from leveling - is already at least at the top end of humanity.

[Deadmanwalking]

Charon's Little Helper wrote:

VRMH wrote:

If Cap isn't a paladin... then who is?

Michael from The Dresden Files.

Well, yes. doesn't mean Cap isn't one though. :)

[Charon's Little Helper]

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Charon's Little Helper wrote:

VRMH wrote:

If Cap isn't a paladin... then who is?

Michael from The Dresden Files.

Well, yes. doesn't mean Cap isn't one though. :)

Certainly not. Cap is probably a Pali / Shield Bralwer. (Of course - like all superheroes - it depends upon which incarnation. A couple are probably too self-righteous instead of actually righteous to be a paladin.)

[LazarX]

VRMH wrote:

If Cap isn't a paladin... then who is?

You can always make him a Shield Champion with VMC Paladin.

[LazarX]

Charon's Little Helper wrote:

LazarX wrote:

And well above average point buy.

Depending on the author, his physical stats are either at the top of Human scale or a bit greater given that he has bounced the Hulk off of his feet.

Remember - any point-buy over 1-3pts is already above average. A 20-25pt buy - especially with a couple of stat-ups from leveling - is already at least at the top end of humanity.

Cap is at the top end of the Adventuring Scale, not the Commoner scale. In a 25 pt world, he'd be 30 pts. No one in the Marvel Universe can train up to Cap's level unless he's mutated or augmented. And he gives most of those a run for their money.

[Eltacolibre]

LazarX wrote:

Charon's Little Helper wrote:

LazarX wrote:

And well above average point buy.

Depending on the author, his physical stats are either at the top of Human scale or a bit greater given that he has bounced the Hulk off of his feet.

Remember - any point-buy over 1-3pts is already above average. A 20-25pt buy - especially with a couple of stat-ups from leveling - is already at least at the top end of humanity.

Cap is at the top end of the Adventuring Scale, not the Commoner scale. In a 25 pt world, he'd be 30 pts. No one in the Marvel Universe can train up to Cap's level unless he's mutated or augmented. And he gives most of those a run for their money.

it depends on the version you follow:

Captain America in 616 is a pumped up human. So 20 pt buy is actually accurate, considering most people are 15 pt buy and lower. Not including recent storyline, where he became a frail old man.

Captain America ultimate version has super strength so above the norm. 25 point buy.

Captain America in the MCU, is a mix of 616 and MCU.

Of course, not going to include all the other stuffs like vampire captain america or what if Tony Starks became captain america/iron patriot etc...

[cnetarian]

You need to throw in some alchemist stuff to mimic the effects of the Reinstein (?sp?) formula, luckily the mutagenic mauler archetype looks like it can stack with the shield champion one.

[Dave Justus]

I don't know that Cap is particularly a Paladin. While he is clearly lawful and good, you don't have to be a Paladin to be a champion of those principles. Cap believes in those things, and clearly fights for them, but unlike a Paladin his strength doesn't seem to particularly come from his belief.

I think you can build him a lot of different ways, but Paladin wouldn't be my first choice.

[Protoman]

Cap shouldn't be a paladin. More fighter or brawler. His personal code of honor and ethics and morality ought to make other paladins go, "Daaaaaamn. I wish I was that hardcore. He SHOULD be a paladin so he'd stop making the rest of us look so lacking in comparison!"

[Zonugal]

For my own adaptations I have settled on something like this:

Human 'Trapper' Ranger 1/'Mutagenic Mauler' & 'Shield Champion' Brawler 7/Chevalier 3
Str 16, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 12

[Roger Steves]

This build has been a great deal of fun for me. I flavor his low Int as a lack of knowledge about the modern world. Also no need for paladin levels to act like one.

[Captain Steves Super Soldier]

See also this Alias for his stats with his mutagen active.

[Aelryinth]

Cap America in Core Marvel is at the apex of human ability in all areas, and considered to be the finest martial human combatant on the planet.

That doesn't mean he can't be beaten by the likes of Shang-Chi and Iron Fist, who combine incredible martial skills with chi mastery, nor does it mean he is better with weapons then weapon masters of that universe. Indeed, Batroc the Leaper is supposed to be better at pure footwork, and of course Cap can't equal Hawkeye with a bow.

In terms of abilities, he have a 22 or 23 in ALL stats. He's a martial genius, charismatic, experienced, extremely coordinated, strong and can go-go-g0.

You could put a 23 or 24 in all his stats, focus his skills on military applications, and assign the level yourself.
----------------

The Ultimates Captain America is a pure superhuman. He needs a hour of sleep a week, has an eidetic memory, and can completely master a complex skill, such as piloting a jet fighter, in less then a day (he masters skills like you or I read magazine articles). He is capable of lifting multiple tons, does not get tired, and while not as experienced a martial combatant as core universe, is so much above human in that regard it isn't funny.

His Strength would be about 40, his Con and Dex would likely be 30+, and his mental scores about 30.

Oh, and he's immune to telepathy and mind-affecting stuff.

And keep in mind that's a TEMPLATE, it has nothing to do with his levels. For levels, a Shield Brawler or a rote Ranger with FE: Human maxed out both work. He could be 6th level and still dominate any normal human soldier of our world simply by his stats. Making him a 6th level ranger is kind of thematic, because he didn't start throwing his shield until later in his career, and that's when Rangers get Shield Master.

==Aelryinth

[Aelryinth]

Roger Steves wrote:

This build has been a great deal of fun for me. I flavor his low Int as a lack of knowledge about the modern world. Also no need for paladin levels to act like one.

Steve Rogers is exceptionally smart in all iterations...but he's NOT a scientist.

He has skills, not trades, and they have military applications. For instance, he's the default pilot for the quinjet, despite being frozen before jets were invented.

He's the finest military commander on the planet, able to come up with strategies and tactics that can confound 'smarter' people like Tony Stark and Reed Richards.

Steve Rogers is a genius at the military sciences, not engineering. Don't underestimate his smarts.

I stand by a 23-24 in ALL stats. Thor and Narmor wouldn't obey his orders if they weren't the best. They know just how awesome he is. In the JLA/Avengers team-up, he was the one put in command of both teams for the final assault. There's members on BOTH teams who are supposedly smarter then him.

Direct his skill points to practical, military applications, and most likely you'll RUN OUT of skill points. Even with a 24 Int.

==Aelryinth

[Revan]

For 'Peak Human Ability' (and if the build is a thought exercise, not a practical one), Pureblood Azlanti Human's +2 to all ability scores seems like the way to go--either having survived Earthfall in stasis (a la being frozen since WWII), or the Super Soldier Serum unlocking latent Azlanti genetics in a normal Andorani man.

[Aelryinth]

Meh. Peak human ability is max stats.

+2 to all stats is a template, and nowhere near as strong.

==Aelryinth

[Doomed Hero]

Cap's a Brawler if ever their was one.

[LazarX]

Aelryinth wrote:

Indeed, Batroc the Leaper is supposed to be better at pure footwork,

He's beaten Batroc though, every time they've fought. Unlike most Marvel villains though, the Leaper isn't vindictive about it.

[Seneh Gibbraneh]

thanks all! i really dont know that much about cap, this is wonderful.
this is a thought excersize while i work at my boring job. i dont have time to play anymore but i still have fun comming up with new ideas...

[Seneh Gibbraneh]

2nd Aelryinth On his opinion about cap being a leader. That is why I wanted him to have the tactician ability.

[Aelryinth]

LazarX wrote:

Aelryinth wrote:

Indeed, Batroc the Leaper is supposed to be better at pure footwork,

He's beaten Batroc though, every time they've fought. Unlike most Marvel villains though, the Leaper isn't vindictive about it.

Sure, sure. He's got other skills. Batroc either loses or runs away in the end.

==Aelryinth

[Aelryinth]

Seneh Gibbraneh wrote:

2nd Aelryinth On his opinion about cap being a leader. That is why I wanted him to have the tactician ability.

IN the Marvel Superheroes game system, Cap's Fame rating was absolutely tops in the game.

He was more famous then Thor, or the Hulk. People on other planets knew about him.

Cap rocks.

==Aelryinth

[LazarX]

Aelryinth wrote:

Seneh Gibbraneh wrote:

2nd Aelryinth On his opinion about cap being a leader. That is why I wanted him to have the tactician ability.

IN the Marvel Superheroes game system, Cap's Fame rating was absolutely tops in the game.

He was more famous then Thor, or the Hulk. People on other planets knew about him.

Cap rocks.

==Aelryinth

People in other ERAS knew him.

[Ravenovf]

I think the real question is what will is arch enemies be in pathfinder.

[Seneh Gibbraneh]

Ravenovf wrote:

I think the real question is what will is arch enemies be in pathfinder.

good question. considering that I will bring them together, if they ever get played, as a group of 20th level adventures and Thor will also have seven levels of mystic so he can have Mjolnir as an artifact.

[Deadmanwalking]

Thor's clearly an Outsider on top of being Mythic. Mostly because of the raw physical might (plus actually being another species).

That said, clearly they should fight Cthulhu or some other Great Old One. That sounds hilarious.

[LazarX]

Seneh Gibbraneh wrote:

Ravenovf wrote:

I think the real question is what will is arch enemies be in pathfinder.

good question. considering that I will bring them together, if they ever get played, as a group of 20th level adventures and Thor will also have seven levels of mystic so he can have Mjolnir as an artifact.

You don't need mythic to have a character get an artifact. Thor was gifted with his weapon, and with the gloves and girdle that enabled him to use it.

[Eltacolibre]

It's all about the Hammer of Thunderbolts. , this is the weapon all the Thor copycat wants.

[Seneh Gibbraneh]

Eltacolibre wrote:

It's all about the Hammer of Thunderbolts. , this is the weapon all the Thor copycat wants.

with the mythic ability to add abilities to a weapon, you could take a the Hammer of Thunderbolts and turn it into a true Mjolnir.... thats what i want.

[Zonugal]

Hey, while we're discussing Cap and a Shield Champion Brawler build, how do these feats line up for this build?

Captain America
Human ‘Trapper’ & ‘Toxophilite’ Ranger 1/’Mutagenic Mauler’ & ‘Shield Champion’ Brawler 7/Chevalier 3
Str 16, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 12
Feats Improved Shield Bash [1st], Point Blank Shot [Human], Precise Shot [3rd], Power Attack [Brawler2], Dragon Style [5th], Two-Weapon Fighting [Brawler 5], Shield Slam [7th], Deadly Aim [9th] & Shield Master [11th]

Any thoughts? Ideas?

[Aelryinth]

looks fine to me.

==Aelryinth

[Zonugal]

So, I just finished this in my other thread:

Captain America:

Zonugal wrote:

"Doesn't matter what the press says. Doesn't matter what the politicians or the mobs say. Doesn't matter if the whole country decides that something wrong is something right. This nation was founded on one principle above all else: the requirement that we stand up for what we believe, no matter the odds or the consequences. When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world — 'No, you move.'"

Captain America
Human ‘Trapper’ & ‘Toxophilite’ Ranger 1/’Mutagenic Mauler’ & ‘Shield Champion’ Brawler 7/Chevalier 3
LG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +4; Senses Perception +15, Low-Light Vision
DEFENSE
AC 32, touch 16, flat-footed 28 (+7 armor, +4 Dex, +5 shield, +2 deflection, +4 natural armor)
hp 120 (11d10+50)
Fort +15, Ref +14, Will +7
Defensive Abilities
Immunity to Fear & Poison
OFFENSE
Speed 40 ft.
Melee Heavy Shield +20/+20/+15/+10 (1d8+13/x2; 10 ft., bludgeoning)
Melee Unarmed Strike +15/+15/+10/+5 (1d8+11/x2; bludgeoning)
Ranged Heavy Shield +21/+21/+16/+11 (1d8+11/x2; 10 ft., bludgeoning)
Ranged Pistol +16 (1d8/x4; 20ft.; bludgeoning & piercing)
Special Attacks Knockout (1/day; DC 19), Smite Evil (1/day; +1 to atk & +11 to dmg)
STATISTICS
Str 22, Dex 18, Con 18, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 12
Base Atk +11; CMB +17; CMD 31
Feats Improved Shield Bash [1st], Point Blank Shot [Human], Precise Shot [3rd], Power Attack [Brawler2], Dragon Style [5th], Two-Weapon Fighting [Brawler 5], Shield Slam [7th], Deadly Aim [9th] & Shield Master [11th]
Skills Acrobatics +17 (10 ranks +4 dex +3 bonus), Climb +10 (1 rank +6 str +3 bonus), Diplomacy +10 (6 ranks +1 cha +3 bonus), Disable Device +13 (5 ranks +4 dex +3 bonus +1 trapfinding), Escape Artist +11 (4 ranks +4 dex +3 bonus), Heal +5 (1 rank +1 wis +3 bonus), Intimidate +5 (1 rank +1 cha +3 bonus), Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +5 (1 rank +1 int +3 bonus), Knowledge (Geography) +5 (1 rank +1 int +3 bonus), Knowledge (Local) +10 (6 ranks +1 int +3 bonus), Knowledge (Nature) +5 (1 rank +1 int +3 bonus), Knowledge (Nobility) +2 (1 rank +1 int), Perception +15 (11 ranks +1 wis +3 bonus), Ride +8 (1 rank +4 dex +3 bonus), Sense Motive +10 (6 ranks +1 wis +3 bonus), Stealth +18 (11 ranks +4 dex +3 bonus), Survival +5 (1 rank +1 wis +3 bonus) & Swim +10 (1 rank +6 str +3 bonus)
Languages Common
Traits Awakened from Stasis & Strong Arm, Supple Wrist
SQ Arrow-Splitter, Favored Enemy (Humans; +2), Trapfinding (+1), Brawler’s Cunning, Martial Training, Mutagen (70 minutes); Unarmed Strike, Brawler’s Flurry, Throw Shield, Beastmorph, Returning Shield, Close Weapon Mastery, Aura of Courage, Recklessness (+3), Controlled Charge, & Stubborn Mind.
[b]Equipment Amulet of Natural Armor (+2), Lesser Belt of Mighty Hurling, Belt of Physical Might (+2), +1 Lightly Fortified Mithral Breastplate, Cloak of Resistance (+2), 10 Paper Alchemical Cartridges, Pistol, 4 Potions of Cure Light Wounds (CL 1), Potion of Lesser Restoration (CL 3), 4 Potions of Protection from Evil (CL 1), Ring of Protection (+2), +5 Adamantine Heavy Steel Shield & 1000 gp left over.

Character Traits
Awakened from Stasis: As a side effect of your stasis, you gain all the benefits of 8 hours of sleep in only 2 hours. This allows a spellcaster who must rest to prepare spells to do so after only 2 hours, but does not allow a spellcaster to prepare spells more than once per day.
Strong Arm, Supple Wrist: Whenever you move at least 10 feet before making an attack with a thrown weapon, you add 10 feet to the range increment of the weapon thrown.

[Neal Litherland]

Most folks have the obvious answer, but I figured I'd like to the full conversion build I did. Includes unique race suggestion, and everything from traits and skills through feats.

When Captain America Throws His Mighty Shield!

[Mystic_Snowfang]

Shield Champion Brawler, the class is modeled after him.

[Seneh Gibbraneh]

is there a way i can have my cake and eat it too?
i want cap to be a Shield Champion Brawler and have the tactician ability. and it still be a viable build without multi-classing.