Unchained advanced rogue talent "quick shot"

[Avadriel]

The talent states that when a character rolls an initiative check, they can as a swift action make a single attack action with a ranged weapon, (but only if they have it in hand).

This talent raises a couple of questions.

First, this ability calls it out as a swift action, does that mean you use it on your turn since you can only take swift actions on your turn?

Second, if the answer to the first question is yes, can you draw a weapon to use with the talent using your other actions, or do you actually need to be holding a loaded ranged weapon when you roll initiative?

Third, Since it requires a swift action, does that mean it is useless in a surprise round?

[Apocryphile]

It happens when you roll initiative, so it's before actions happen. There are no turns at that point, you get the shot off before anyone has a chance to blink.

Now for surprise rounds, if you act in the surprise round, see above. If you don't (because you're surprised) then your quick shot goes off when you roll your initiative after the surprise round is resolved.

IMHO of course.

[chbgraphicarts]

Avadriel wrote:

The talent states that when a character rolls an initiative check, they can as a swift action make a single attack action with a ranged weapon, (but only if they have it in hand).

This talent raises a couple of questions.

First, this ability calls it out as a swift action, does that mean you use it on your turn since you can only take swift actions on your turn?

Second, if the answer to the first question is yes, can you draw a weapon to use with the talent using your other actions, or do you actually need to be holding a loaded ranged weapon when you roll initiative?

Third, Since it requires a swift action, does that mean it is useless in a surprise round?

It's called out as a Swift Action so you can't kill your opponents with infinite daggers because they're Free Actions.

Remember that you're given an unlimited number of Free Actions (left up to DM discretion, at least).

Swift Actions aren't spammable in the slightest, so calling it out as a Swift Action sets it in stone that you can do this ONCE, and that's it.

It also combos with Gunslinger's Initiative, to allow you to draw & fire once before Initiative is even rolled.

In other words, it makes you Han, and YOU. SHOOT. FIRST.

[Avadriel]

chbgraphicarts wrote:

It's called out as a Swift Action so you can't kill your opponents with infinite daggers because they're Free Actions.

Remember that you're given an unlimited number of Free Actions (left up to DM discretion, at least).

Swift Actions aren't spammable in the slightest, so calling it out as a Swift Action sets it in stone that you can do this ONCE, and that's it.

It also combos with Gunslinger's Initiative, to allow you to draw & fire once before Initiative is even rolled.

In other words, it makes you Han, and YOU. SHOOT. FIRST.

The issue with it being a swift action is that you can only take swift actions on your turn, so if it is a swift action, then either this ability is used on your turn, despite what it implies, or it gives you an action that you can never use.

Being a swift action means it can also never be used during a surprise round because in a surprise round you can take a single move or standard action, but not a swift action.

Even if it was a free action, it would never be spammable because the talent specifies that you may take a single attack action with a ranged weapon when you roll initiative. The only way to use it more than once would be to roll initiative more than once.

As written, the talent seems to give you an action the rules do not allow you to ever take.

[CWheezy]

It should be an immediate action

[chbgraphicarts]

Avadriel wrote:

The issue with it being a swift action is that you can only take swift actions on your turn, so if it is a swift action, then either this ability is used on your turn, despite what it implies, or it gives you an action that you can never use.

Being a swift action means it can also never be used during a surprise round because in a surprise round you can take a single move or standard action, but not a swift action.

Even if it was a free action, it would never be spammable because the talent specifies that you may take a single attack action with a ranged weapon when you roll initiative. The only way to use it more than once would be to roll initiative more than once.

As written, the talent seems to give you an action the rules do not allow you to ever take.

Surprise Round wrote:

If some but not all of the combatants are aware of their opponents, a surprise round happens before regular rounds begin. In initiative order (highest to lowest), combatants who started the battle aware of their opponents each take a standard or move action during the surprise round. You can also take free actions during the surprise round. If no one or everyone is surprised, no surprise round occurs.

Swift Action wrote:

A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort than a free action. You can perform one swift action per turn without affecting your ability to perform other actions. In that regard, a swift action is like a free action. You can, however, perform only one single swift action per turn, regardless of what other actions you take. You can take a swift action anytime you would normally be allowed to take a free action. Swift actions usually involve spellcasting, activating a feat, or the activation of magic items.

Please.

STOP.

My brain hurts so much right now from how painfully wrong you are, and how much you're overthinking this.

You absolutely 100% without question in this, that, those, or ANY universe CAN use a Swift Action in the Surprise Round, because you CAN use a Free Action during the Surprise Round, and you CAN use a Swift Action WHENEVER you can use a Free Action so long as you haven't eaten up your Swift/Immediate Action allotment.

The ability says you use a Swift Action to fire during Init Roll. Whatever type of Action, the ability overrides the normal rules of the game in that regard.

So, you use a Swift Action to fire your gun.

Which means that you eat up the Swift Action/Immediate Action economy.

Perhaps it designates a Swift Action in case you also would be allowed an Immediate Action, such as the 12th level Martial Flexibility Brawler ability which lets you activate it as an Immediate Action, so you can't go "Okay, draw a gun, draw a sword, gain Improved Init, so +8 to Init; oh, and I fire my gun!"

Whatever the reason is, it works, it's fine, carry on with your day.

[zza ni]

ty chbgraphicarts, i was actuly starting to second guess if i can use swift actions in suprise rounds or not. i remmeberd you could, but didn't remember where it was writen.

[CWheezy]

Why are you bringing up surprise round, quick shot is unrelated to surprise round

[djones]

"First, this ability calls it out as a swift action, does that mean you use it on your turn since you can only take swift actions on your turn?"

Nope. It means that when there's an initiative roll you get a turn, in advance of even the surprise round. So GM calls to roll initiative and you get a turn that is one swift action in length before even the surprise round, as part of the initiative roll.

"Second, if the answer to the first question is yes, can you draw a weapon to use with the talent using your other actions, or do you actually need to be holding a loaded ranged weapon when you roll initiative?"

You have enough time for a single swift action, so no. If you can draw and load as a free action, you're good.

"Third, Since it requires a swift action, does that mean it is useless in a surprise round?"

It happens outside of the surprise round as part of the initiative roll.

NB: this gets crazy pretty fast if you reroll initiatives each round.