|
So if I'm an abyssal bloodrager under the effect of beast shape, when I rage do I become an enlarged beast?
Demonic Bulk (Su): At 4th level, when entering a bloodrage, you can choose to grow one size category larger than your base size (as enlarge person) even if you aren't humanoid.
Beast Shape and Demonic Bulk would work together since only Beast Shape is a polymorph effect, right?
What if I beast shape into something that has claws and then I enter a bloodrage. Would my abyssal claws replace my beast shape's claws?
Enlargement bonuses wont stack. And neither do i belive does magic size increases. But if you beast shape to somthing medium sized i think you can get big with demonic bulk.
I see what you're saying now. Thanks.
It's not a spell, though, it's a supernatural ability, would that make a difference?
The problem is that it's a polymorph effect. And it's a polymorph effect because it works like a polymorph spell, enlarge person. Even if it were somehow an extraordinary ability, if it referenced working as a polymorph effect, it still would not stack.
It works as enlarge person, which is a spell. It doesn't matter that it is a supernatural ability, because it works as the spell.
So no.
Enlarge person is not a polymorph effect.. Only Beast Shape is
Well. That's weird.
Enlarge person is not a polymorph effect.. Only Beast Shape isWell. That's weird.
Certainly. It is only transmutation.
I mean, it doesn't change the result of the rules. Breaking down the rule bolded above:
1. If you are under a polymorph spell
2. other spells that change your size
3. have no effect.
As you can see, 2. there does not need the spell to be another polymorph spell, just that it changes your size. In fact, it is a separate rule from the one about doubling up on polymorph spells (since it is put as "in addition to")
Most likely, it was written with this exact situation in mind- because druids are troubling enough without this. Also, it is a set of spells that ahve been around since the CRB- since Paizo created the current version of the polymorph rules (no idea how 3.5's rules were). So it is a combo that could be easily foreseen and planned for from the get go
|
As supernatural abilities, bloodrage and demonic bulk don't function in an antimagic zone, but can't be dispelled.
Supernatural abilities are magical but not spell-like. Supernatural abilities are not subject to spell resistance and do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated (such as an antimagic field). A supernatural ability's effect cannot be dispelled and is not subject to counterspells. See Table: Special Ability Types for a summary of the types of special abilities.
Note that barbarian rage is extraordinary, and does function in a magic-free zone.
What if I beast shape into something that has claws and then I enter a bloodrage. Would my abyssal claws replace my beast shape's claws?
Yes.
While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision), as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form. You also lose any class features that depend upon form, but those that allow you to add features (such as sorcerers that can grow claws) still function.
|
|
So what I'm seeing is you guys are saying "no it doesn't work because it says as enlarge person". But it's not a spell, so why would something that says it doesn't interact with spells care about this [su] ability? It's obviously not a spell, otherwise it would be defined as such. It can't be dispelled because it's not a spell, so why would it be limited to something that restricts spells?
Because you also need to take into account the rules in the polymorph section which say:
You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell. In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.
So we know you couldn't actually be affected by enlarge person (the spell) while using beast shape (a polymorph affect). The only question is does demonic bulk work as enlarge person despite not being a spell? The answer is yes. And therefore, it works the same way (that is to say it doesn't work at all).
It says "other spells". Not "other spells and abilities". What am I missing that you're not?
This bit
Demonic Bulk (Su): At 4th level, when entering a bloodrage, you can choose to grow one size category larger than your base size (as enlarge person) even if you aren't humanoid.
If it was a size change ability like the spriggan, which sets up its own rules, then you would be fine.
But this states that it uses the rules of enlarge person, which means all the surrounding rules about spells come with it.
|
|
It says "other spells". Not "other spells and abilities". What am I missing that you're not?This bit
Demonic Bulk (Su): At 4th level, when entering a bloodrage, you can choose to grow one size category larger than your base size (as enlarge person) even if you aren't humanoid.If it was a size change ability like the spriggan, which sets up its own rules, then you would be fine.
But this states that it uses the rules of enlarge person, which means all the surrounding rules about spells come with it.
So then it can also be dispelled?
It cannot be dispelled because it is supernatural. But outside of being a supernatural ability, it otherwise functions exactly as the spell Enlarge Person.
Except where it function as a supernatural ability instead of a spell, it functions exactly as the spell.
Which basically means only the following changes:
Supernatural Abilities: These can't be disrupted in combat and generally don't provoke attacks of opportunity. They aren't subject to spell resistance, counterspells, or dispel magic, and don't function in antimagic areas.