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Hey all. I've been looking for a place to discuss my roleplaying problems (read:dramas)but have just recently stumbled upon the Paizo forum (odd, seeing as how often I play/dm pathfinder games). After reading how supportive and open minded people are in this forum, i thought I'd give it a shot.
My online rpg group loves romantic storylines. It is always one of the big part of any of our campaigns (we roleplay the downtimes extensively, even outside of sessions) and you often get 2-3 couplings between pcs/npcs each campaigns. This is due to many factors,I believe, such as an almost 50-50 spread of male/female/gay/bi/etc players in our group as well as using virtual tables to play (hence you're looking at the PC's pictures instead of the player), many of the players also came from play by post non-system roleplaying boards, so they very much enjoy character interaction more than combat/dungeoncrawling.
This is most often extremely fun for most of us as it provides a deeper roleplaying experience that can be pursued independent of the dm (we take turns dming episodic quests) but, sometimes, it causes an unhealthy ammount of drama, as the title of this thread may have implied already.
Sometimes, you have more than one PC romantically pursuing one other pc/npc and this gets ugly. It leads to people bickering or being passive aggresive (which is sometimes funny because all three players are often straight males)and I can recall one case of a player hitting the DM because the DM's NPC tried to give cpr to his character's romantic interest (Yes, I don't play with that guy anymore)
I've been involved in some of these and they never really bothered me because, well, it's just a roleplay, but recently something happened that bothered me greatly.
I started dating a friend of mine who I met through a 4th ed dnd game (I always thought she was a guy because she roleplayed a teenage boy when we first met, but when we met in a star trek convention, she turned out to be this really pretty girl). In our latest pathfinder campaign, we played a romantic triangle between her character, mine and a friend of mine's.
I played the part of the spurned party and I was perfectly ok with that at first, but then as time goes on and she and my friend started roleplaying their romantic relationship (Which includes sex and marriage), I find myself feeling bothered, especially when they discuss it in front of me, so I spoke up about it but made it perfectly clear I don't want them to change the way they roleplay. My girlfriend and friend convinced me that I'm being irrational (And, really, I was)and that I needed to get over it. It was just a gay dude and a girl roleplaying a romantic storyline (which I do a lot as well)
Eventually, after a long storyline filled with drama and romance, a plot twist happened and my girlfriend's character changed her mind. My friend then freaked out, saying that we're both very rude to 'ruin his romantic pairing' and thus ruining his enjoyment.
I found it to be a very hypocritical thing to do. I gave him the chance to roleplay the way he wanted, even when it bothered me, but when the situation was reversed, he insists that me and my girlfriend were being rude. Along the course of the storyline, he even tried to subtly affect the story to his advantage (either as dm or outside the game).
It slowly became a pattern with him, everytime something happens to his 'pairings', he gets really angry and defensive, saying he 'worked hard' for them, but really, shouldn't everyone be free to roleplay the way they like?
Is it impossible to roleplay romantic storylines without drama? In my opinion, conflict between characters who want the same thing is normal, this should be no different.
Sorry for the long post and I hope I can get some feedbacks :)
He's letting his character get too connected to his self. It's a fantasy role playing game, and nothing ruins fantasy like reality. Also, this openly gay friend is starting to seem bisexual.
I'm straight, but women want nothing to do with me. As part of my fantasy, my characters will get married at the first opportunity. In real life I can't cast spells or use slippers of spider climbing either. As a GM I enjoy role playing copper dragons, Lizard men, and the occasional non evil undead.
You can't get the full enjoyment out of the game if you bring the baggage of reality with you into the game. His character should not act like the GM is cheating because his character does not know the GM exists. If his character acts that way all the other characters should treat him as a serious nut case.
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This is a classic problem.
Roleplaying romances can be utterly destructive, and I've seen that happen so many times, I tend to avoid even the opportunity as the plague, by making characters with little or no interest in romance of any kind.
Because while players will swear on a stack of assorted holy scriptures that they are mature enough to handle it, and that it's all in good fun and that no hard feelings will be felt if things go awry in character ... it rarely works that way, and this is a -fine- example of why.
Let's take your example of three straight guys RP'ing a love triangle between their characters, since you mentioned such a situation yourself. And let's just assume, also for the sake of interest that they really ARE straight, and not hiding that they are bi or gay for their own reasons.
They are still playing a relationship that they want to succeed.
This is pretty much what it boils down to in the end. Even if it's only a fantasy, it's a fantasy that is potentially -extremely- intimate and it may involve laying one's own wishes and dreams bare.
In fact, I'm willing to wager that happens almost every time, even if the players involved are actively trying to avoid it. Because it's very hard to RP a believable relationship otherwise.
When it goes south, players inevitably feel that their hopes and dreams are being invalidated. Not dashed ... there is no real relationship there to destroy after all ... but the hopes and secret wishes put into that make-belief relationship are shown to be unrealistic in some way.
The result is a stinging kind of discomfort or even pain, but also one most people would be deeply uncomfortable sharing with those around the table, because doing so is -precisely- what the problematic player in your story tries.
He says he works hard at the relationship, only for it to not work out.
If he didn't put part of himself into that make-belief relationship, he wouldn't care.
And I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that he's not the only person who's been smarting because of a failed IC relationship ... he's just the only one in the group (as I understand it) who shows it openly.
Yes, he puts too much of himself into his IC relationship. I absolutely think agree that he does. However, I also think that your group is playing an extremely risky kind of game that may eventually crash and burn with a LOT of hurt feelings coming to the fore.
If not, more power to you.
But speaking from bitter, -bitter- experience, it can lead to lost friendships, decades-long resentment and people walking away from the hobby entirely.
Hey all. I've been looking for a place to discuss my roleplaying problems (read:dramas)but have just recently stumbled upon the Paizo forum (odd, seeing as how often I play/dm pathfinder games). After reading how supportive and open minded people are in this forum, i thought I'd give it a shot.
My online rpg group loves romantic storylines. It is always one of the big part of any of our campaigns (we roleplay the downtimes extensively, even outside of sessions) and you often get 2-3 couplings between pcs/npcs each campaigns. This is due to many factors,I believe, such as an almost 50-50 spread of male/female/gay/bi/etc players in our group as well as using virtual tables to play (hence you're looking at the PC's pictures instead of the player), many of the players also came from play by post non-system roleplaying boards, so they very much enjoy character interaction more than combat/dungeoncrawling.
This is most often extremely fun for most of us as it provides a deeper roleplaying experience that can be pursued independent of the dm (we take turns dming episodic quests) but, sometimes, it causes an unhealthy ammount of drama, as the title of this thread may have implied already.
Sometimes, you have more than one PC romantically pursuing one other pc/npc and this gets ugly. It leads to people bickering or being passive aggresive (which is sometimes funny because all three players are often straight males)and I can recall one case of a player hitting the DM because the DM's NPC tried to give cpr to his character's romantic interest (Yes, I don't play with that guy anymore)
I've been involved in some of these and they never really bothered me because, well, it's just a roleplay, but recently something happened that bothered me greatly.
I started dating a friend of mine who I met through a 4th ed dnd game (I always thought she was a guy because she roleplayed a teenage boy when we first met, but when we met in a star trek convention, she turned out to be this really pretty girl). In our latest...
While some may be opposed or weirded out by it, I've had romantic storylines in games as well. One involving Zakhfar al Assad of Iriaebor comes to mind. The funny thing about that, is it was also for the entertainment of the other players - I swear a friend at the table got more out of it than I did, I think she was a drama fan, even though she had no characters in play in the romance. She really gushed at certain scenes, ha ha.
In another one, a dm very intelligently used a romance to move the story along and keep my character on task. Romance the fey queen, okay, now help the fey queen, go on adventures, alas too much intimacy with her messes with you feeble mortal (probably at the cellular level, but it was worth it fey diseases or genetic re-write be damned), lol. Great experience.
So I think we are definitely on the same page, but ownership and competition can cause real problems. Some may remember friends competing to "get" a girl, and in game with characters of mighty power, the competition could get intense, silly and unpleasant. "How will you pursue the fair lady now you are feebleminded, bwahahahahahah!"
"I played the part of the spurned party and I was perfectly ok with that at first, but then as time goes on and she and my friend started roleplaying their romantic relationship (Which includes sex and marriage), I find myself feeling bothered, especially when they discuss it in front of me, so I spoke up about it but made it perfectly clear I don't want them to change the way they roleplay. My girlfriend and friend convinced me that I'm being irrational (And, really, I was)and that I needed to get over it. It was just a gay dude and a girl roleplaying a romantic storyline (which I do a lot as well)"
Yeah, that would feel really awful, what is real, what is fantasy, are they spending too long indulging in it? Tough days.
"Eventually, after a long storyline filled with drama and romance, a plot twist happened and my girlfriend's character changed her mind. My friend then freaked out, saying that we're both very rude to 'ruin his romantic pairing' and thus ruining his enjoyment."
Dude, gay or not, should learn to accept the woman gets to make her choices as well, inside and outside of roleplaying. He doesn't own her, and well, give him the fantasy divorce rates in the setting. :D
"It slowly became a pattern with him, everytime something happens to his 'pairings', he gets really angry and defensive, saying he 'worked hard' for them, but really, shouldn't everyone be free to roleplay the way they like?"
Clearly he has abandonment issues, but also a problem in that he feels entitled to have his way forever. People being frustrating and eventually getting bored of him must really hurt. Try to understand.
None kill threads like I kill threads.
Lol, no no, you didn't kill the thread. I kept checking back to see this thread but there were no responses in the past, so I stopped looking.
Perhaps the biggest factor in his problem is that he wasn't a pen and paper roleplayer to begin with, he was in these forum written non-system roleplay where everything that happens needs to be discussed and agreed upon by all players, which is why he considered my girlfriend's character hooking up with mine despite being enggaged (let alone the political implication in the victorian setting) to be 'rude'.
I did tell him once that in most pen and paper systems, things just..happen in the spur of the moment, either due to player decision or even dice rolling, but he didn't accept that, saying that it's just ethics to not ruin other people's romantic storyline.
Also, this openly gay friend is starting to seem bisexual. <-I don't see what you mean here though, straight men can roleplay as females too, females can roleplay as straight males, and so on.
I believe that, despite my initial iffiness in watching my girlfriend roleplay a relationship with a dude i hang out with constantly, I made the best of the situation and channeled it into an interesting storyline (of my character finally moving on by throwing himself into his project of replacing coal with a new arcane power source), but ever since his freakout..I don't know, I just feel like all parties involved got burnt.
I hated how my girlfriend asks that we keep our storyline a secret so we don't offend him, which, I think is silly. It's not like we did anything wrong that we have to hide around, I mean when he was roleplaying with my girlfriend, I dealt with it, why can't he deal with this one? I do understand that my girlfriend is tired of the drama and is just trying to prevent further arguments.
The campaign is ending this week, I'm just really glad to put it behind us.
Also, I'm not exactly a GM, we take turns GMing episodic storylines (Which is a different source of problems altogether, but I'll keep that for a different thread)