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Hello once again everyone. While originally I had intended to make this thread to better word a wish I hope to make later down the line with my character, I'd like to welcome others who desire the same help to post here as well. I may not be able to help, but there are quite a few bright players on the boards that might.
That said. I'm looking for help in wording a "unique" wish, to have a better chance of not getting jilted / messed up when I can finally wish it. Earlier this week, I was killed, coming back as a vampire on steroids. All the power and immunity, along with some horrible downsides.
So. How would I best word the following wish?
I wish that I become mortal, taking the form I had the day before I was killed by the vampire, while maintaining the current undead immunities, powers and abilities I currently have, except for abilities (blah blah and blah).
Now. I know a DM probably would either try to twist this (thus the thread) or outright deny it. If that happens... oh well I guess. I realize its a very strong wish after all. So how bout it? Anyone know how to better word the wish above?
Have you leveled, gained exp, or gained items worth keeping since then? You may lose them unless you reword it.
Let's see, other exploitable DM options, hmmm. By "Except for abilities" do you mean some vampire abilities your going to list later? In which case, which ones? Also, the DM could theoretically have you keep all the negative abilities, like the whole sun burning thing and that rushing water pain in the ass and the permission requirement. Unless of course those are the abilities you intend to list.
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Your best bet is to buy your GM a case of beer. Actually, for this you might try something harder...20 yo single malt scotch might do it.
I agree with Dave: When in doubt, butter up the DM. The more questionable the request, the more expensive the gift. Give it to them at the start so they aren't as suspicious. Reap the benefits till you need to make the wish. Also, how are you getting this wish? The spell? A genie? Some homebrew magic item?
If it's the spell, I advise against this wish. They have to operate within the realms of logic, and since a vampire retaining it's powers after being raised would in my opinion be classed as an anomaly, I doubt it'd work. I still advise the gift though. You can get a lot of leeway out of a single malt scotch.
I agree with Dave: When in doubt, butter up the DM. The more questionable the request, the more expensive the gift. Give it to them at the start so they aren't as suspicious.
Plus you want them somewhat impaired when you ask.
The simplest wish would probably simply involve going "I wish I no longer had X, Y, Z weaknesses" (name all of them explicitly). Maybe won't give you everything you want (being alive again, for instance) but it gets rid of the downsides (need to feed, sunlight destruction, running water, etc.).
It's hard to twist that without looking like a dick. If your DM twists that into something that doesn't do exactly what the wish says ("Hoydee doydee you're no longer a vampire hahahehehoho") then your GM is simply going to twist ANY wish you make, no matter how well worded, so you may as well not bother.
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The simplest wish would probably simply involve going "I wish I no longer had X, Y, Z weaknesses" (name all of them explicitly). Maybe won't give you everything you want (being alive again, for instance) but it gets rid of the downsides (need to feed, sunlight destruction, running water, etc.).
It's hard to twist that without looking like a dick. If your DM twists that into something that doesn't do exactly what the wish says ("Hoydee doydee you're no longer a vampire hahahehehoho") then your GM is simply going to twist ANY wish you make, no matter how well worded, so you may as well not bother.
Magic (and by extension wishes) are inherently lazy, usually going for the simplest answer. If someone wishes to lose the negative aspects of something, the simplest answer would be to lose all of that something instead of having to separate several intrinsically linked things.
To the OP: Make sure to write your wish down specifying all terms and conditions that come with the wish. Bonus points if you word it like a legal contract.
double bonus points if you get a contract devil to write it for you. (no way that could backfire....)
Lots of good advice. My DM is an odd case. He's quite generous when it comes to rulings for us, but he's definitely the type to have fun with a wish depending on the source. In this case, the spell.
@Rynjin, I'll probably go along with your suggestions for now. It's a while away before I do it, but I suppose staying undead while taking away some or most of the downsides works just as well.
@Dave & Duke, reasonable advice. We do this online, so sending him stuff might be difficult haha.
Thanks for the advice everyone. Obviously it'll be a tough sell and maybe an impossible one, but I think I'm willing to give it a shot.
EDIT: @Ishmell, I shall do that. I had a short, one month business law class in college, so I could probably make it at least look convincing. Also... devil's aren't necessarily out of the question... one can trade other things then their own soul.
I guess he could twist it in the sense that, if you wish to become mortal while keeping all vampire powers except x y, z, he could instead of actually granting it hint at a quest you could go on that would end with you achieving said wish. Are you between quests or are you in the middle of one? Whether this is valid depends on whether you're busy with a quest already or not. If you go with rynjins idea the same would likely apply.
Some good suggestions. Thanks. The loophole idea is an interesting idea especially. One has to make sure one doesn't get dead because of it like you said.
As for what he's doing right now, he's sort of in between adventures. Getting ready to go kill the vampire that made him this way in fact.
I would just be honest with your GM with what you're after.
If I were your GM I would just straight up tell you it's not possible to negate the weaknesses while retaining the bonuses of being a vampire.
What you want is a lot. I suggest you lower your sights to revivification plus keeping say 1-3 specific vampire powers you like, rather than keeping all except a few you hate. That makes it harder to twist and gives the GM much less reason to want to twist it.
@Fuzzy Wuzzy, That sounds like a fair plan. I'm not against lowering the bar.
@Claxon, I may do this as well. Especially at the start. If he says no outright, I guess I may be bummed, but at least we're both saving time.
@Fuzzy Wuzzy, That sounds like a fair plan. I'm not against lowering the bar.
@Claxon, I may do this as well. Especially at the start. If he says no outright, I guess I may be bummed, but at least we're both saving time.
Indeed, rather than trying to come up with a clever trick (which your GM will very likely see through) it is easier to discuss what is or isn't possible or what he would be agreeable to.
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I would just wish that I would be alive as the day I was before the incident. Take whatever comes. The path to wishes going wrong is greed. Keep it really simple. Your GM will respect you for not trying to pull a fast one, since your GM sounds nice.
I suspect wishes going wrong have to do mainly with unpure intentions.
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Once when I was very new to this D&D stuff, someone gave me this scenario. You're a lv 20 wizard, standing next to a tarrasque who you know will destroy the world. You have a wish. What do you do?
Now take into consideration I was very new to this, the only thing I knew about tarrasques were they were unkillable and would just dome back from whatever you threw at them. I definitely did not know any 1-round the tarrasque tricks, or weird funky stuff.
So I simply told the person, "I wish the tarrasque never existed."
He said the tarrasque vanished like it never existed and the world was saved.Then he said, "well since the tarrasque never existed, the past changed, and you never went adventuring so now you're a lv 1 wizard with orcs battering down your house."
One life to save the world? Definitely worth it.
Why would orcs be battering down your house?
Why would the Tarrasque never existing affect your adventuring career up to that point? You (presumably) didn't go adventuring for the sole purpose of killing the Tarraque.
If you're going to f@&+ somebody over on a wish, it has to make some sort of logical sense.
If you were trying this in one of my games, one wish spell wouldn't do what you want. One wish per weakness you wanted to get rid of would be fine. Or a wish to revive you, followed by one wish per ability you wanted to keep.
However, I definitely dislike the way many GMs and players seem to think that wishes should be messed about with.
I ask a player to explain out of character what they are after, then have them make a wisdom, or intelligence, or appropriate skill check. If they get a reasonable result, the wish works. And we avoid derailing the game session for the next n hours while everyone argues over unnecessary wish scripts!
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The simplest wish would probably simply involve going "I wish I no longer had X, Y, Z weaknesses" (name all of them explicitly). Maybe won't give you everything you want (being alive again, for instance) but it gets rid of the downsides (need to feed, sunlight destruction, running water, etc.).
It's hard to twist that without looking like a dick. If your DM twists that into something that doesn't do exactly what the wish says ("Hoydee doydee you're no longer a vampire hahahehehoho") then your GM is simply going to twist ANY wish you make, no matter how well worded, so you may as well not bother.
Gotta agree here. If a GM wants to twist your wish, they will, so there's no use making something that you expect them to deny.
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use this trait Thoughtful Wish-Maker. You need a outsider and be able to make a dc 30 Sense Motive check. If you get over 25 just reword the request and try again.
use this trait Thoughtful Wish-Maker. You need a outsider and be able to make a dc 30 Sense Motive check. If you get over 25 just reword the request and try again.
Huh... that's actually pretty awesome. They actually made a possible way around a DM screwing with a rare, yet powerful resource. Nifty.
Step 1) Get the DM Stark raving drunk.
Step 2) Ask nicely.
Well, I was turned into a vrykolakas. So the primary worry is about his constant bubonic plague ability (which is currently being handled by a magic item the DM made up, but may take away at any time). The second, is his ability to make other vampires if he claws something a little too big HD wise. And third... it turned him into a humanoid ugly dog / ape thing, and my character doesn't like that... haha. Feeding comes in at 4th. Its troublesome, but manageable as long as you have small animals or weak minion bad guys about.
Well, I was turned into a vrykolakas. So the primary worry is about his constant bubonic plague ability (which is currently being handled by a magic item the DM made up, but may take away at any time). The second, is his ability to make other vampires if he claws something a little too big HD wise. And third... it turned him into a humanoid ugly dog / ape thing, and my character doesn't like that... haha. Feeding comes in at 4th. Its troublesome, but manageable as long as you have small animals or weak minion bad guys about.
Sounds like you could solve the first and third by wishing to become a different subspecies of vampire? That shouldn't tempt the GM to screw around.
Vrykolakas aren't even a real vampire. Turn into a Nosferatu instead.
This is how you phrase it:
"GM, I don't want my character to be a vampire any more, and would like to use a wish to safely remove the template."
You shouldn't need a 10-page contract. That's a fun killer. Just make sure every one is on the same page and the GM should simply tell you whether or not it would work in his game.
Vrykolakas aren't even a real vampire. Turn into a Nosferatu instead.
They are quite awesome. Except, the whole bursting into flames in the sun and aversion to garlic, mirrors and strongly presented holy symbols. Plus if I had to infiltrate a bad guys lair... I need their permission. Although, it's odd, I don't see anything in the template saying they absolutely have to feed. Weird. Anyways, seems as difficult to deal with as a Vrykolakas.
In any event, I told my DM what I was intending to wish, and I get the feeling that he intends to twist it somehow (he said he had some thinking to do)... So. I may just wish to get turned back to normal. Not nearly as fun as a vampire hybrid, but at least I don't spread the plague, feed on people and look like a gross dog ape man half the time.
A fun trick I worked out playing a Nosferatu.
Step 1: Use Telekinesis to grapple a motherf&#@er inside the house (instantaneously putting him adjacent to me, within biting range).
Step 2: Threaten him to let me in.
Step 2a: If he refuses, Dominate.
Step 3: Wreck face.
How did you manage to deal with the whole daylight burning time and running water near insta-death things?
Sunlight was dealt with via a magic item from Way of the Wicked, though there is a spell that would also handle it. Something Penumbra.
Running Water never came up. It's only being submerged in it. I could Fly (the Vampire Feat that gives you flight. A homebrew version that was 30 ft. Perfect instead of 60' good, but same difference. Plus we had a Brown Fur Transmuter anyway, so Overland Flight was an option from him), and we had a boat, and honestly diving/swimming doesn't come up that often.
Those "crippling weaknesses" are mere inconveniences, if they ever come up.
As a Good character fighting Evil people most of the time, you should have an even easier time of it, as you likely won't run into Clerics that spam Sunburst.
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Sunlight was dealt with via a magic item from Way of the Wicked, though there is a spell that would also handle it. Something Penumbra.
Running Water never came up. It's only being submerged in it. I could Fly (the Vampire Feat that gives you flight. A homebrew version that was 30 ft. Perfect instead of 60' good, but same difference. Plus we had a Brown Fur Transmuter anyway, so Overland Flight was an option from him), and we had a boat, and honestly diving/swimming doesn't come up that often.
Those "crippling weaknesses" are mere inconveniences, if they ever come up.
As a Good character fighting Evil people most of the time, you should have an even easier time of it, as you likely won't run into Clerics that spam Sunburst.
protective penumbra