Brew Potion and Adding New Abilities

[Deviston]

Using the Brew Potion feat and the rules for adding new abilities, what would be the general breakdown for effectively "combining" potions, elixirs, and the like? Please address "listed" CL of the new item, pricing breakdown, how change in CL would effect duration/points (example, increase of CL would increase damage healed by CLW) and how, if at all these would change the price of the over all item (example, would adding a CL 5 potion to a CL 1 CLW require repricing the CL 1 CLW as if it were CL 5?).

If you have any other RAW concerns or hole I may (likely) have missed, please address those as well.

A few example combinations to show clear situations:
Potion CLW + Potion CLW
Potion CLW + Elixir of Vision
Elixir of Vision + Elixir of Truth
Elixir of Vision + Elixir of Truth + Potion CLW

Note: I recognize that all of this is in the general realm of "up to DM approval", but please answer as if the DM has approved. No need to remark on the effective strength or power or balance, simply the RAW.

Many thanks ahead of time.

[Brf]

By RAW, a potion duplicates the effects of a single spell, up to 3rd level. There is not a way to brew a potion that does two spells at once.

[chbgraphicarts]

RAW you can't, but for a homegame you could theoretically get away with it.

If nothing else, Combine Extracts lets you do it with Alchemist Extracts from lv8 onwards.

[Brf]

And the "Elixirs" you have listed are not potions at all.
Elixirs are made with Craft Wondrous Item, not Brew Potion.

[Deviston]

Fair point on Elixirs. Rephrasing question to a point then, using both Brew Potion and Craft Wonderous Item, blah blah blah original questions. Still referencing "adding new abilities".

Brf, according to the "Adding New Abilities" section, you CAN add a second effect to the potion. Unless I missed a caveat that specifically states you can't of course.

If one CAN'T, using the "Adding New Abilities" rule, put two potions together, please explain via RAW why that is, rather than just stating "according to RAW you can't". I request this because there is no citation proving your claim.

[DM_Blake]

I can't find any RAW that says a potion MUST have only one effect (or CANNOT have more than one effect). But clearly that is the intent:

Pathfinder SRD, Magic Items, Potions wrote:

A potion is a magic liquid that produces its effect when imbibed. Potions vary incredibly in appearance. Magic oils are similar to potions, except that oils are applied externally rather than imbibed. A potion or oil can be used only once. It can duplicate the effect of a spell of up to 3rd level that has a casting time of less than 1 minute and targets one or more creatures or objects.

Note the bolded bits. Singular. And everywhere else in the PRD that talks about potions. You never find anything like "Potions have one or more effects...". Nothing even like that.

But that's not proof.

Also, I am pretty sure I've never seen any potions in any Paizo published material that have more than one effect.

But that's not proof either.

But it might be a strong indicator of RAI.

So, since you can't do it in PFS in the first place, this only applies to home games and, there, it's always entirely up to the GM.

So price each ability separately, charge normal price for the cheapest and 1.5x for each other ability, and blend away.

Using the OP examples:

Potion CLW + Potion CLW = 50 + 75 = 125gp.
Potion CLW + Elixir of Vision = 50 + 375 = 425gp.
Elixir of Vision + Elixir of Truth = 250 + 750 = 1,000gp
Elixir of Vision + Elixir of Truth + Potion CLW = 375 + 750 + 50 = 1,175gp

Of course, some of those require blending a wondrous item with a potion which is a whole new question for the GM.

[Deviston]

Excellent points on all accounts.

I'm sure there are Wondrous Items that have multiple effects (via Adding New Abilities rule) to source for them, and it was that rule in general that gave me the idea for the poly-potion/elixir. Like you say however, just because it's available and intended for other no-slot items, doesn't mean such is the case for potions/elixirs.

Anyhow, thanks a bunch for the break down.

[Rogar Stonebow]

The only rules worthy way to do this is use a spell created by the words of power alternate casting offered in Ultimate Magic. And even then I'm not sure it works.

[Deviston]

The only rules worthy way outside of those listed in DM_Blake's post you mean?

Or do know of another rule or caveat that makes DM_Blake's direct reading incorrect?

[Orfamay Quest]

Deviston wrote:

The only rules worthy way outside of those listed in DM_Blake's post you mean?

Or do know of another rule or caveat that makes DM_Blake's direct reading incorrect?

Well, one caveat is that you get different pricings if you use the WoP framework.

A wordspell with two first-level effect words is a third-level effect, so costs a minimum of 750 gp as a potion, not 125 gp. A wordspell with two second-level spells (or a first and a second-level spell) would be a 4th level effect, which is not legal for a potion. And a wordspell with three first-level effect words would also be a fourth-level and hence illegal potion.

[Rogar Stonebow]

Deviston wrote:

The only rules worthy way outside of those listed in DM_Blake's post you mean?

Or do know of another rule or caveat that makes DM_Blake's direct reading incorrect?

Rules worthy was not preciseness of language. Maybe it should be said that the only way to do it within the rules.

The way I understand it is you can combine multiple effects into a single spell. If this is true, then it should be ok to make a potion with multiple effects. Also it may be possible to make a fireball potion that targets the drinker.

[Deviston]

Ah, the let me rephrase my question.

You state that the "only way to do it within the rules" is to use WoP. However, DM_Blake has cited, based on RAW, it can be done with the current rules of magical item crafting (specifically citing "Adding New Abilities").

So what hole in the reading of the rules makes the adding of new abilities (aka another potion effect) not legal RAW? At which point in the splaying of the rules that DM_Blake cited was there something omitted that makes adding another potion effect to a preexisting one not legal RAW?

(No need to discuss WoP further as this thread isn't trying to find a way to make combining potions happen, but rather it is trying to see if there is anything stopping it through current RAW. Which, unless something new is found or noted, it can be done RAW.)

[Rogar Stonebow]

Deviston wrote:

Ah, the let me rephrase my question.

You state that the "only way to do it within the rules" is to use WoP. However, DM_Blake has cited, based on RAW, it can be done with the current rules of magical item crafting (specifically citing "Adding New Abilities").

So what hole in the reading of the rules makes the adding of new abilities (aka another potion effect) not legal RAW? At which point in the splaying of the rules that DM_Blake cited was there something omitted that makes adding another potion effect to a preexisting one not legal RAW?

(No need to discuss WoP further as this thread isn't trying to find a way to make combining potions happen, but rather it is trying to see if there is anything stopping it through current RAW. Which, unless something new is found or noted, it can be done RAW.)

Well DM_BLAKE'S post is a great post if you are the type who likes good points and efficiency.

I actually misread it, thinking it had more to do with the way he would do it.