The Demon Mother's Mask


Advice

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Alright so me and a bunch of my friends have a session of Rise of the Rune lords going, the GM has modified a lot of things through out it so craziness is pretty common. Either way we've got a goblin sorcerer (crazy and kinda dumb I know) that's freaking ridiculous, but it's a follower of Lamashtu and wants to make use of the aforementioned item. So I'm working on figuring out how to use the second effect and how exactly it would work. I was hoping I could get some insight on the timeline and the "effects" on the PC. If any one has some insight I'd really love the help.
Things I'm looking for:
-Gestation time
-Pregnancy Effs on the PC
-opinion on the situation

Thanks again!
weaponmojo


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The best way to handle this item:
Don't.


As a goblin, I believe her biology is rough and tumble enough due to her kind's constant predation by low level adventurers and plentiful mutations.

If she was not tough enough, she would quickly end up as a few XP for a level 1 character. The world does not go easy on a goblin just because she is with horrible, horrible child.

In the end, my advice is- don't go into this dark, dark road. You can BS enough of an excuse to write off the details.

But if we must, then, as a joke, I can reference some random set up I read online (forget the source), where goblins must constantly drink and hit their writhing bundles of joy with rolling pins to make sure they do not claw their way out. This seems particularly appropriate due to whatever fanged, clawed, feathered, and tentacle miracle of life she is going to bring into the world. In mechanical terms- drinking and nonlethal damage, or she faces some small CON damage. If she ever reaches 0, then you are going to have a Ridley Scott moment.

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lemeres wrote:
As a goblin, I believe her biology is rough and tumble enough due to her kind's constant predation by low level adventurers and plentiful mutations... In mechanical terms- drinking and nonlethal damage, or she faces some small CON damage. If she ever reaches 0, then you are going to have a Ridley Scott moment.

I'm assuming this is the source http://www.talesofmu.com/other/professional-small-talk

since this is the closest I've found and with the GMs approval to a degree I've sketched up a rough slide through the stages, though there are a few more things I'd like your opinion on. Once again gestation length is pretty commonly set at 100 days, but that's the only true similarity. As for brood sizes and conception chance I'll leave that up to the GM most likely but I would like to know your opinion on the thoughts I've tossed around considering roleplaying this out.

Firstly since she's a caster (and a goblin) putting her on maternity leave doesn't really seem all that likely so opinions on some of the draw backs from combat while pregnant would be much appreciated. Another thing is the thought of the "children" growing rather quickly after birth, growing to half the level of their mother and randomly rolling their class and giving them cheap gear?

These are just a few things I'd like opinions on at this point.

Thanks again!
weaponmojo


Dotting to see where this goes.


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weaponmojo wrote:
lemeres wrote:
As a goblin, I believe her biology is rough and tumble enough due to her kind's constant predation by low level adventurers and plentiful mutations... In mechanical terms- drinking and nonlethal damage, or she faces some small CON damage. If she ever reaches 0, then you are going to have a Ridley Scott moment.
I'm assuming this is the source http://www.talesofmu.com/other/professional-small-talk

Ah, yes. I was trying to google information about the Dark Water Rising comics without knowing the name...and...well... google happened.

If I had to seriously suggest thngs I've heard before, perhaps doing stuff with load might be useful. As in, during the second trimester, treat her as having a medium load, and a heavy load during the third trimester.

Assuming this doesn't go all weird because...Lamashtu and demon babies.

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lemeres wrote:
weaponmojo wrote:
lemeres wrote:
As a goblin, I believe her biology is rough and tumble enough due to her kind's constant predation by low level adventurers and plentiful mutations... In mechanical terms- drinking and nonlethal damage, or she faces some small CON damage. If she ever reaches 0, then you are going to have a Ridley Scott moment.
I'm assuming this is the source http://www.talesofmu.com/other/professional-small-talk
Ah, yes. I was trying to google information about the Dark Water Rising comics without knowing the name...and...well... google happened... Assuming this doesn't go all weird because...Lamashtu and demon babies.

Firstly thank you, the load idea definitely makes sense, and luckily we were able to easily connect that, but since the number of days we're going on doesn't easily divide into thirds, we decided to split it into quarters instead of trimesters, it makes it flow a bit better and fits better into the timeline.

To start it all we've mostly based our information off that short story. Deciding to start with a base 6+1d6 for the number at conception. And start off from there with a 20 damage (Lethal or non-lethal) to "abort" one child, from there as each quarter comes along it quadruples in difficulty to abort. Starting with the first it's just 20 damage over any amount of time, after that it's 80 within one week, 320 without potion use, and then impossible.
The first (and this is rough) comes with simple a simple -1 to fort saves against endurance (dehydration and hunger come much more quickly to those with "child") as well as cravings for veggies (the pc is heavily carnivorous) and alcohol.
The second comes with the beginnings of weight increase with a -1 penalty to dex along with the insatiable thirst for booze and pain to her lower abdomen.
Third shows up the medium load minimum slowing her down, along with -3 to fort saves against dehydration, holding her breath, etc. -2 to dex, a constant need for booze, most likely leaving her heavily intoxicated constantly. And let's not forget the craving of vegetables and liver.
The fourth leaves her practically defenseless, with a -3 to dex, -4 to the aforementioned fort saves, and a heavy load (unless there's only one child where it will stay medium) The infants can't/won't die at this point and she'll be constantly flat-footed and most likely slowed to half speed.

Still would like your opinion on the aftermath (the aging thing) as well as the wall of text above.

Thanks again!
weaponmojo


If the player is interested in having a familiar, animal companion, or cohort it might be interesting to let one of the PC's fiendish offspring fill that role. I'm not sure if forcing a bunch of stereotypical problems with pregnancy onto the PC would really be fun or not. I guess that the idea demon babies might be dangerous to their mothers has some merit though. If you've absolutely got to enforce some penalties it might be fair to give some benefits too. Like maybe the mother would gain Alertness as the little critter kicks when danger is near? I suppose that some weird Lamashtu themed minor SLAs could work too.

Now for some in character comments by a goblin PC of mine named Sharky:
"Sharky not know why these people talk bad about Demon Mother’s Mask. Sharky like Venkelvore since she’s always hungry like him, but Lamashtu is great goblin goddess of motherhood. Without her mask how we make pig-man and man-pig? How we make wolf with goblin head and goblin with wolf head so we can be more like barghest? How they think first Goblin Snake got made? Humans they not think! They say not take this dark road, but Sharky think then you miss lots of fun.

Imagine fun of torturing gnomes and humans until they beg Mother for mercy, put on Mask, and wait for Squealy Nord to give them babies! First Sharky chews arms and legs off so they can’t get away and goblins can have a snack. Pickled human and gnome shank is great goblin delicacy, and Chief Sharky is expert pickler! Then Janka the Witch gives them Infernal Healing to keep them alive. All goblin tribe takes turns having fun with prisoners while we advise them of how good it is to accept Mother’s mercy and help her children come into this world. Soon our tribe have whole garden of these demon eggs like big, moaning melons only tastier! Sharky can hardly wait for them to pop open as fiendish babies burst forth from undersized wombs and goblins lick up delicious Abyssal afterbirth. What can be better than this? Maybe it is when Sharky find helicoprion and make Goblin Shark!"

As you can tell, my PC has high hopes for the Demon Mother's Mask as well as plans to attain regional power and oppress the local human and gnome populations in the most brutal manner possible...all in good fun of course...


3.5 book of erotic fantasy has rules for pregnancy and gestation time for various species

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Devilkiller wrote:
If the player is interested in having a familiar, animal companion, or cohort it might be interesting to let one of the PC's fiendish offspring fill that role. I'm not sure if forcing a bunch of stereotypical problems with pregnancy onto the PC would really be fun or not. I guess that the idea demon babies might be dangerous to their mothers has some merit though. If you've absolutely got to enforce some penalties it might be fair to give some benefits too. Like maybe the mother would gain Alertness as the little critter kicks when danger is near? I suppose that some weird Lamashtu themed minor SLAs could work too...

Firstly, Boomie would love to meet you Sharky. Onto the I was thinking starting with bonuses to cariamas intellegence and wisdom, gaining large bonuse to bluff and diplomacy during the final stages, since from what I can tell people are often more likely to agree with and few believe a pregnant woman is lying.

Will saves would get a boost too, since there are two sides to pregnancy after all.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

IMHO, any PC in RotRL who is dedicated to Lamashtu, bears a monstrous child and uses the mask is doomed to become an NPC on the other side of the fence: a new adversary for the heros to face down the road.

I just don't get how you can play an evil-oriented and even less a Lamashtu-dedicated PC in this campaign. But hey, if you're into that sort of kinky, evil, warped kind of stuff, go for it.

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Wheldrake wrote:

IMHO, any PC in RotRL who is dedicated to Lamashtu, bears a monstrous child and uses the mask is doomed to become an NPC on the other side of the fence: a new adversary for the heros to face down the road.

I just don't get how you can play an evil-oriented and even less a Lamashtu-dedicated PC in this campaign. But hey, if you're into that sort of kinky, evil, warped kind of stuff, go for it.

I'm not personally the one running the goblin, an secondly I have already stated the Gm has made many alterations to this adventure ranging from switching goblins to orcs and merging in Arthurian legend to creating a new main antagonist, so describing this as simply rotrl isn't quite accurate any more. And though Lamashtu seems to be a prevalent deity it's pretty obvious she's not the one we need to worry about any more.

Thank for your input though!
weaponmojo

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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WcqdMtKgFiMmuxSJgTToh-iAJnZnwDQQcTO 71-LBL3I/edit

Thanks to your input me and the GM set up a pretty balanced (ish) Pregnancy chart, mainly specific to goblins and their ridiculous customs and such.
Thanks again guys!!!
weaponmojo


I'm sure Sharky would like to meet Boomie too. If your RotRL campaign is still taking place in the Sandpoint area they're technically neighbors since Sharky hails from the Brinestump Marsh in a campaign booted off by We Be Goblins.

I wasn't able to see the file with your link. I'm curious to see what you came up with. The DM of our Goblin Game is a woman, so I'd kind of like to get her perspective on all this. I also wonder if it wouldn't be convenient for story reasons to allow whatever fiendish offspring the mask produces to mature at a magically accelerated rate. The idea of giving birth to fiendish babies is interesting, but having them grow into monsters which can actually do something seems like even more fun.

This just reminded me of a Hong Kong movie called "The Demon's Baby". I won't say it is a "good" movie, but it features some scenes where a demonic fetus splits open its mother's abdomen and starts attacking people from inside her, resulting in stuff like a guy staggering around with all of the flesh stripped off of his bloody skull. Whether it is cheesy gore, poor subtitles, or kung-fu fights against babies this film has something for practically everybody to dislike. Maybe your crazy goblin player would get a kick out of it.

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here

This one should work, not sure why the other doesn't... Either way this should let you all see the chart
And about the movie I wouldn't doubt it if he already watched it... Twice.
Please do show it to as many people as you think could give it decent critique.

Thanks again!
weaponmojo


The url is wonky because of the space right before "71-LBL3I/edit." Just take that out and put http in lower case, no s and it'll work fine.

The yellow is almost impossible to read without zooming incredibly far in. I suggest a darker font.

You should specify what the numbers in the left column mean, 12+ and etc. I assume it means amount of children in her?

The language in the thing about rolls is rather unclear. Try going for readability and not expedience in reading. Feel free to take up that column with what that roll is for. Also define with the roll is for as a full sentence. I assume it's the odds of getting pregnant? Don't know what crit is about or 1d6+4.

The stats look good. You might want to specify if the bonus to Bluff and the bonus to Charisma base checks stacks with itself.

You did good. You just need to make it more about understanding it and less about getting it down in the least words possible.

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Wow Such Doge wrote:
The yellow is almost impossible to read without zooming incredibly far in. I suggest a darker font... You did good. You just need to make it more about understanding it and less about getting it down in the least words possible.

Thanks for the advice the noted issues have been improved and changed (at least most of them I think) if there are any other issues please tell me and I'll rectify them as soon as possible.

Thanks again!
weaponmojo


Every time I read about one of the absolutely @%#$ed-up Lamashtu items or feats that is an actual Pathfinder product, I just sigh in appreciation. Man, that thing is horrifically dark, and boy do I love it.


If people think having sex with animals is dark you should see the other stuff a party of goblins might tend get into. Slapstick comedy using people's severed limbs is just the beginning. Anyhow, I can view the document now. I've sent a link to the DM of our Goblin Game seeking her comment. Unfortunately the only female PC in the game is played by somebody else, so my PC won't be giving birth to any fiendish offspring unless maybe we find some alchemically enhanced cookies.

Since I'm already making movie references what I'm thinking of with the cookies is a film called "The Immaculate Conception of Little Dizzle", in which some guys from a janitorial company eat some apparently leftover cookies which chemists designed to taste warm and delicious even when they're at room temperature. The janitors are basically being used as unwitting human test subjects, and the cookies have the strange side effect of making men pregnant. A few days later these guys start giving anal birth to little creatures which look kind of like glowing blue fish and tend to escape into the city's sewer system (which seems reminiscent of the glowing jellyfish in the Japanese film "Bright Future")

Goblins do like to eat a lot of weird stuff and drink potions and alchemical concoctions, so I guess there's really no telling what might happen...


39 and 1/2 foot poles here, get your 39 and 1/2 foot poles!

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Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
39 and 1/2 foot poles here, get your 39 and 1/2 foot poles!

Um... what?

Sincerely,
weaponmojo


weaponmojo wrote:
Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
39 and 1/2 foot poles here, get your 39 and 1/2 foot poles!

Um... what?

Sincerely,
weaponmojo

Yeah, that is a terrible product. I mean, I would have to buy a ruler separately and tape it on to pass the 40' limit.

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lemeres wrote:
weaponmojo wrote:
Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
39 and 1/2 foot poles here, get your 39 and 1/2 foot poles!

Um... what?

Sincerely,
weaponmojo

Yeah, that is a terrible product. I mean, I would have to buy a ruler separately and tape it on to pass the 40' limit.

It seems this thread has gotten a tad off topic...

-weaponmojo


Ah, Sharky, I see your request to find special pickles... perhaps refreshingly chilly and crisp, no refrigeration needed?

As to the Mask, and goblin pregnancy:

-- I assumed conception was a given. It's magic, and the Demon Mother is into fertility (an "unexplained" pregnancy may be a sign of favor or disfavor, anyway). If you're a worshiper and wearing the mask and attempting pregnancy, you're going to get it.

-- Childbirth will, of course, be miserable and dangerous. Lamashtu isn't very nice in pathfinder, and she's even worse in the original source material. I'd probably go with a series of fort saves (probably with Con damage for failure).

-- I'm against the chance of spell failure for pregnancy. I guess the idea is that it's like wearing armor, but I'd consider that it should be more like the Bloatmage feats and prestige class, which have penalties similar to ones incorporated into that list and also include an armor check penalty but not ASF. If anything, I think there's an idea that it would be a more mystical time, and if you're carrying baby demons I think it would definitely affect your magical power positively.

-- I don't think the babies would necessarily age supernaturally quickly, but a spell could certainly be researched that would do it.

Devilkiller don't read:
In the real world, the size of hybrid offspring is dependent on the size of both parents, not just the mother. Often, the offspring of a larger mother and smaller father will be larger than either species.

ETA: I also don't like being constantly flat-footed, mostly because it negates aspects of the game instead of just penalizing them, and I think that's less fun.

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threemilechild wrote:

As to the Mask, and goblin pregnancy:

-- I assumed conception was a given...
-- Childbirth will, of course, be miserable and dangerous...
-- I'm against the chance of spell failure for pregnancy...
-- I don't think the babies would necessarily age supernaturally quickly...
** spoiler omitted **
ETA: I also don't like being constantly flat-footed...

Thanks, you definitely put a few things into perspective,

Yes in this scenario conception is ensured, I created the chart linked to above for the majority of Goblin pregnancies, since there's kind of a lack of information on them.
Secondly thanks a lot, I hadn't even thought about the birth and it's definitely something that needs to be clarified for future reference.
Next, the spell failure could be switched for a concentration check since the children will most definitely be increasingly rowdy, and would definitely affect her ability to cast spells, except from the wands she focuses on... heh...
Well if you were the mother of all demons you wouldn't want to be nursing them for months would you?
The mask directly stats that the offspring are the mother's race with features of the father's, so they wouldn't be too much bigger than the mother, no matter the size of the father (especially since they need to be within one size category of each other)
And finally flat-footed isn't necessarily exact, it's honestly something I opted out of in the "final" write up of the chart.

Thanks for your input!!!
weaponmojo


Because I myself am not a goblin I didn't read the spoiler I wasn't supposed to read. I like the idea of somebody pregnant with a demon baby ending up kind of like a Bloatmage though. Heck, if some sorts of fiendish babies had a longer rather than shorter gestation period than normal maybe the Demon Mother could be a prestige class where you go along gaining various Bloatmage like powers before gaining some minor Synthesist type abilities and finally maybe giving birth to a full fledged monster.

In another thread a while back somebody talked about the idea of an evil Summoner who gives birth to the summoned monsters (reminiscent of Game of Thrones I suppose)

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Devilkiller wrote:
Because I myself am not a goblin I didn't read the spoiler I wasn't supposed to read. I like the idea of somebody pregnant with a demon baby ending up kind of like a Bloatmage though. Heck, if some sorts of fiendish babies had a longer rather than shorter gestation period than normal maybe the Demon Mother could be a prestige class where you go along...

It would definitely be a cool prestige class, and honestly that would be awesome. My only issue is the Bloatmage is full of a non newtonian fluid, it wouldn't cause the same issues as 12 wolf/goblins trying to claw their way out of your womb.

Still sounds cool though,
weaponmojo

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