For spells, (arguably) yes - if you are a spontaneous caster (via Expanded Arcana.) You cast the paragon surge before you cast the required spell.
For most feats, it should be similar, but it's more questionable in that case.
For the item creation feats themselves, certainly not!
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Check with your GM for whether Paragon Surge is even allowed. It's rather powerful, and your GM might ban it.
I don't think there's an official rule, but I wouldn't allow it.
Doesn't work.1. Buy a Ring of Continuation.
2. Cast Paragon Surge.
3. Profit.
Wow; they nerfed the holy hell out of that item. Why in the world would anyone be willing to burn 56,000 GP on an item that only works on spells that will most likely outlast your work day?
Deadbeat Doom: The character can buy a lot of rods for the cost of that ring.
Yeah, and if it still worked the way it does out of book, that ring plus Paragon Surge grants access to ALL Item Creation Feats. You'd make your money back in no time.
No. I don't think there's an official rule on it, but the commentary from Paizo on the boards has been that if you can't reliably (meaning have it available basically 24/7) do something then you don't qualify for using it as a prerequisite. So, since you have to use a spell to gain access to it and don't have it naturally to your character through a feat, class ability, racial, and so on, you can't then use it to do things which require it as a prerequisite.
Here's the thing.
Sor 9: +12 Spellcraft
Skill Focus Spellcraft: +3
Magical Aptitude: +2 (and +2 to UMD)
=+17, assuming you don't have an Intelligence malus.
Since item creation is 5+CL(+5 per missing prereq,) and all meta rods are CL 17, making a meta rod without the meta feat is DC 27.
You can take that penalty, and still take 10. No need for Paragon Surge here! :)
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Edit for quick correction: forgot about the CL requisite, so it'd be DC 32, not 27. You'll need to find +5 from somewhere else, or wait until level 10 (where you'll get +5 from the skill feats augmenting themselves.)
Doesn't work.1. Buy a Ring of Continuation.
2. Cast Paragon Surge.
3. Profit.
That FAQ was completely unnecessary. It already included language that limited its effect when the spell in question had limited permutations. Its original version in no way allowed for a 24 hour (constant) time stop. If it technically had, that that language could have been made more clear. They didn't have to change the spells to which it could apply so as to basically make it worthless as Deadbeat Doom illustrated.
Here's the thing.
Sor 9: +12 Spellcraft
Skill Focus Spellcraft: +3
Magical Aptitude: +2 (and +2 to UMD)
=+17, assuming you don't have an Intelligence malus.Since item creation is 5+CL(+5 per missing prereq,) and all meta rods are CL 17, making a meta rod without the meta feat is DC 27.
You can take that penalty, and still take 10. No need for Paragon Surge here! :)
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.
Can paragon surge, which lasts 1 min/level, be used to obtain a spell or feat to fulfill a prerequisite for crafting a magic item, particularly if crafting the magic item takes longer than the duration of paragon surge?No because you'd have to have that access for the full day's period of work.
seconded.
Just like you don't gain a bonus to a skill check if you've only got it for a few minutes (such as Inspire Competency used on a craft check over 8 hours, doesn't last that long), if you don't have the spell for the full period you're working on the item, it doesn't apply.
Note that you cast the spell over the course of the eight hours you are working on it, not all at once. Even applies to scrolls and charged items...you're slowing drawing off the energy as you craft the item. That's basically what 'accessible during the whole time period' means.
==Aelryinth
Here's the thing.
Sor 9: +12 Spellcraft
Skill Focus Spellcraft: +3
Magical Aptitude: +2 (and +2 to UMD)
=+17, assuming you don't have an Intelligence malus.Since item creation is 5+CL(+5 per missing prereq,) and all meta rods are CL 17, making a meta rod without the meta feat is DC 27.
You can take that penalty, and still take 10. No need for Paragon Surge here! :)
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.
I'm aware of that; OP specified that he picked up Craft Rod at L9. What he wanted to do was use Paragon Surge to emulate the metamagic feat and avoid the +5 for not having it, because he specifically wants to avoid that +5. :)
What I missed (before edit) was the +5 for being under caster level.
So, again. He's got Craft Rod normally = can start.
5 = base.
+17 = CL
+5 = the sorcerer is lower level
+5 = not having the metamagic feat
=DC 32.
What he can have, minimally:
12 = base for L9 sorcerer.
+3 = Skill Focus
+2 = Magical Aptitude
+n = other sources (eg, Int.)
=+17+n. If n >= 5, he can take 10 and make metamagic rods without having the metamagic feats, without needing the question of Paragon Surge. Otherwise, he can easily do it at L10 when he suddenly goes to +23+n due to the skill feats improving.
Here's the thing.
Sor 9: +12 Spellcraft
Skill Focus Spellcraft: +3
Magical Aptitude: +2 (and +2 to UMD)
=+17, assuming you don't have an Intelligence malus.Since item creation is 5+CL(+5 per missing prereq,) and all meta rods are CL 17, making a meta rod without the meta feat is DC 27.
You can take that penalty, and still take 10. No need for Paragon Surge here! :)
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.I'm aware of that; OP specified that he picked up Craft Rod at L9. What he wanted to do was use Paragon Surge to emulate the metamagic feat and avoid the +5 for not having it, because he specifically wants to avoid that +5. :)
What I missed (before edit) was the +5 for being under caster level.
So, again. He's got Craft Rod normally = can start.
5 = base.
+17 = CL
+5 = the sorcerer is lower level
+5 = not having the metamagic feat=DC 32.
What he can have, minimally:
12 = base for L9 sorcerer.
+3 = Skill Focus
+2 = Magical Aptitude
+n = other sources (eg, Int.)=+17+n. If n >= 5, he can take 10 and make metamagic rods without having the metamagic feats, without needing the question of Paragon Surge. Otherwise, he can easily do it at L10 when he suddenly goes to +23+n due to the skill feats improving.
My bad; I got your post mixed up in my head with the side discussion about Paragon Surge.
There is the option of buying or crafting a Headband of Int boosting, to wear when crafting. It's only really of use during downtime, not if he's crafting whilst adventuring, but it could also have a craft skill linked to it. And craft skills (unlike Spellcraft) are much easier to enhance.
Crafter’s Fortune or masterwork tools or items of competence boosting.
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Sandslice, there is no caster level requirement for metamagic rods. Unless it's listed under Prereqs it's not a requirement, so the DC without the metamagic feat is indeed 27. Few items actually require their caster level.
It's more likely that he doesn't have Skill Focus and Magical Aptitude, which still leaves him at a +12 or so looking for a 27 - thus the desire to try and get the prereq.
Sandslice, there is no caster level requirement for metamagic rods. Unless it's listed under Prereqs it's not a requirement, so the DC without the metamagic feat is indeed 27. Few items actually require their caster level.
It's more likely that he doesn't have Skill Focus and Magical Aptitude, which still leaves him at a +12 or so looking for a 27 - thus the desire to try and get the prereq.
I blame the little devil on my left shoulder who informs me that the item CL *should be* a prereq. It's a bit strange that it's not. So re-scrubbing that, +12+int against 27. +5 shouldn't be hard to make up.
---@OP: If your sorcerer is doing this just to get the meta rods, craft (weapons) might be an easier path. This isn't optimised, but takes no feats other than craft rod:
Artisan (trait): +2
Mwk tools (circ): +2
12 Int: +1
Class skill bonus: +3
Ranks: +9
=+17. This is 27 on take 10, which is enough.