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Take it as you will, thejeff... But that study honestly doesn't seem very accurate or unbiased. I don't see how it could not be.
That's a real limitation of studies that rely on what people's impressions. If a scientist said to the participants something like "watch more porn, tell me if you notice any negative effects", how do you know it was an actual increase in negative behaviors rather than an increased in observed/imagined behavior? I doubt the scientists kept tables on the sex life of the participants.
We see this kind of (often unconscious) bias all the time.
It is kinda hard to judge a study without knowing much about it though.
It is kinda hard to judge a study without knowing much about it though.Take it as you will, thejeff... But that study honestly doesn't seem very accurate or unbiased. I don't see how it could not be.
That's a real limitation of studies that rely on what people's impressions. If a scientist said to the participants something like "watch more porn, tell me if you notice any negative effects", how do you know it was an actual increase in negative behaviors rather than an increased in observed/imagined behavior? I doubt the scientists kept tables on the sex life of the participants.
We see this kind of (often unconscious) bias all the time.
Nah, it's easy. You just judge it by whether it gives the results you want.
If it doesn't, you rely on your gut feelings and anecdotes you've heard.
The study might well be flawed. Everything that doesn't even reach that standard certainly is.
Lol.
While I suspect you're right, it's also worth remembering that a LOT of your (generic you) neurology can't tell the difference between reality and non-real visual stimulus. I don't mean your brain thinks there's little people in the box, but think about all optical illusions (including video itself) that you encounter all the time and how they work. See the Checker Shadow Illusion for an example.
This is, of course, different than thinking that Gilligan's Island is a documentary, but still interesting.
Visual illusions rely on aspects of the brain that are entirely separate from what we use for our social understanding. We don't rely on the visual center of the brain that is tricked by illusions to make decisions in social situations. We might use the information the visual center has given us, but a different portion is where that decision is made.
It is kinda hard to judge a study without knowing much about it though.Take it as you will, thejeff... But that study honestly doesn't seem very accurate or unbiased. I don't see how it could not be.
That's a real limitation of studies that rely on what people's impressions. If a scientist said to the participants something like "watch more porn, tell me if you notice any negative effects", how do you know it was an actual increase in negative behaviors rather than an increased in observed/imagined behavior? I doubt the scientists kept tables on the sex life of the participants.
We see this kind of (often unconscious) bias all the time.
Nah, it's easy. You just judge it by whether it gives the results you want.
If it doesn't, you rely on your gut feelings and anecdotes you've heard.
The study might well be flawed. Everything that doesn't even reach that standard certainly is.
Like I said... Take it as you will. If you think that's what I'm doing... Well... I don't really care.
The mood of this thread has soured. We need a funny WTF moment to lighten the mood.
Hmmm what should I choose?...
...I know!
Like thirty years of repression... and hot dogs.The mood of this thread has soured. We need a funny WTF moment to lighten the mood.
Hmmm what should I choose?...
...I know!
Nah, something about pornography and Japanese culture being hard to understand for westerners.
Nah, something about pornography and Japanese culture being hard to understand for westerners.Like thirty years of repression... and hot dogs.The mood of this thread has soured. We need a funny WTF moment to lighten the mood.
Hmmm what should I choose?...
...I know!
i am quite familiar with this fetish, although it is not one I share.
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Studies come in all qualities. Paywalls to studies are actively harmful, and this is why. Without seeing all of the study, we have no way of knowing why the study draws those conclusions, and so it remains useless to us. An abstract is not something that says much, certainly not enough to base arguments on.
Contributor
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However, I don't think anyone over... I dunno... 14~15 years believes that sex is like porn...Saying porn causes body image issues and sets unrealistic expectations about sex is like saying The Matrix sets unrealistic expectations for learning kung fu and makes young martial artists feel bad about themselves because they don't look like Hollywood stars and can't dodge bullets!Just touching on this point.
I'm not disagreeing with your larger point, but mainstream pornography is part of a much larger set of societal influences that cause body image issues. It's not the main culprit - I'd not even say top five - but it's still a part of how society can influence body image.
I'm speaking only about U.S. culture, by the way; I know we have an international community here, and I don't want to speak for other parts of the world. :)
I am an adult, dammit!
Do you deliver late-night?
...
Asking for a friend...
I do indeed work the night shift.
Mmm... Isaiah Mustafa...
What were we talking about again?
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However, I don't think anyone over... I dunno... 14~15 years believes that sex is like porn...Saying porn causes body image issues and sets unrealistic expectations about sex is like saying The Matrix sets unrealistic expectations for learning kung fu and makes young martial artists feel bad about themselves because they don't look like Hollywood stars and can't dodge bullets!Just touching on this point.
I'm not disagreeing with your larger point, but mainstream pornography is part of a much larger set of societal influences that cause body image issues. It's not the main culprit - I'd not even say top five - but it's still a part of how society can influence body image.
I'm speaking only about U.S. culture, by the way; I know we have an international community here, and I don't want to speak for other parts of the world. :)
I am an adult, dammit!
Do you deliver late-night?
...
Asking for a friend...
I do indeed work the night shift.
Mmm... Isaiah Mustafa...
What were we talking about again?
Pornography: Destructive to low-income and immigrant women and children.
Excellent. Please tell us what you base that statement on.
He could be going the low income > incr. risk of being trafficked route. Which, simply being low income doesn't put you at risk for that. However, proportionally speaking, more low income women are trafficked than high income women. That said, there are simply fewer high income women so it seems like one of those 'duh' kind of statistics.
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Also, pretty much everything bad has higher chance to happen to low-income people, since a higher income gives you more means to avoid the bad stuff.
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Also, pretty much everything bad has higher chance to happen to low-income people, since a higher income gives you more means to avoid the bad stuff.Wait, are you saying that pornography is bad stuff? If so, one more for the Destructive Entertainment camp.
You put words into people's mouths almost as well as Peter North puts.... you get the idea.
You put words into people's mouths almost as well as Peter North puts.... you get the idea.Also, pretty much everything bad has higher chance to happen to low-income people, since a higher income gives you more means to avoid the bad stuff.Wait, are you saying that pornography is bad stuff? If so, one more for the Destructive Entertainment camp.
my sides
You put words into people's mouths almost as well as Peter North puts.... you get the idea.Also, pretty much everything bad has higher chance to happen to low-income people, since a higher income gives you more means to avoid the bad stuff.Wait, are you saying that pornography is bad stuff? If so, one more for the Destructive Entertainment camp.Is there a point to this red herring?
Or do you just like to obtusely beat up on honest expression of opinions?
Or is it you like the easy pickings of verbally slapping a minor on a public forum?
And people wonder why I'm cynical. Pfft....
No one cares why you're cynical.
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No one cares why you're cynical.You put words into people's mouths almost as well as Peter North puts.... you get the idea.Also, pretty much everything bad has higher chance to happen to low-income people, since a higher income gives you more means to avoid the bad stuff.Wait, are you saying that pornography is bad stuff? If so, one more for the Destructive Entertainment camp.Is there a point to this red herring?
Or do you just like to obtusely beat up on honest expression of opinions?
Or is it you like the easy pickings of verbally slapping a minor on a public forum?
And people wonder why I'm cynical. Pfft....
Aww.... You shouldn't be so hard on yourself. At the very least you're someone. ;)
Seriously though, all the sniping that goes on at me - and sometimes at my opinions - really reinforces my native cynicism too much. Not to mention that Lemmy is perfectly capable of defending his own posts.
Yeah, when I read posts like Ironthruth's (above), and most of yours (everywhere), it makes me think of what Bill Maher recently said. And since he said it best:
You have a process you repeat regularly
1) remove context
2) add value judgments that weren't there
3) attack those value judgments
Am I supposed to take you seriously when you literally invent meanings for other peoples posts and act like you're some sort of righteous crusader of debate?
The answer to that rhetorical question is "no" btw. Yes, I do find some of your opinions to be out there, and potentially even ridiculous. But it's really your style of interacting with people that I find almost completely lacking in substance. The reason there's no substance is that you invent things for other people to say out of thin air and then proceed on as if they were Newton's Laws.
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"Look at me! I'm cynical and angsty! I don't care about anything! And I'll prove it by replying again and again and mentioning my cynism over and over! I'm so deep..."
Heh...
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Everything bad has a higher probability of hitting poor people, simply because there are more of those. And the discussion was about whether Gark motivated his argument about porn being harmful to poor people by equating porn with trafficking and the like. We never got an answer, only Gark's statement. Sorry, Quark, as I read it, you don't have anything to base that "chalk one up for destructive" on.
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I don't know. I've ranked myself among the cynical since I was a teenager; it has never stopped me from caring.
I don't know. I've ranked myself among the cynical since I was a teenager; it has never stopped me from caring.
Besides, if a person really doesn't care about anything, they're probably too apathetic to be cynical.
Nihilism is the true manifestation of not caring, not cynicism.
Yeah, but you're an old school Cynic.
Straight out of Athens, Gobbo.
Get outta the way of my light, Alex.
Yeah, I've noticed Hedges's Presbyterian ministerism has really been coming to the fore lately.
Yeah, I've noticed Hedges's Presbyterian ministerism has really been coming to the fore lately.
...not to mention his political activism, his wartime correspondentism, his investigative journalism, his bestselling authorism, His Pullitzer Prize winningism, his socialism, etc etc etc.
Whew... Sooooo... Hedges doesn't like porn?
I think he's of the opinion that it and prostitution are the tip of the iceberg of the myriad problems of our predatory, capitalist, violent society.
The capitalism point is well taken. Currently, those with the most money can purchase the most sex. And the poor/unskilled/uneducated are the most incentivized to sell sex. If porn and prostitution went away the rich would have to, I don't know, rely on their innate charm/appearance/decency instead.
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Well, what can I say... He sure hates capitalism. I wouldn't say that the link he tries to paint between modern day porn and exploitation of Philippino women in 1898 is as clear as he thinks it is. It sounds more like "porn is bad so let's call it capitalist and imperialist. Many, many, many times."
A) If he heard a sex worker claim that she liked doing what she did, would he listen to her, or is she then a brainwashed tool of the capitalist, evil, imperialist, capitalist and capitalist world capitalism?
B) How does he reconcile recent decades' reduction in poverty with capitalism being so, so... Capitalist?
Hmm, that's weird. Why do people pay for it then, if those with money can get it for free?
For free? Seriously? :-)
As I see it, people's desire to improve things, coupled with a willingness to invest to get there. The problem is that capitalism is a low-level phenomenon, but various political figures prefer to negotiate with fewer, wealthier people to dealing with significant parts of the population directly. Thus, they actively support monopolies, oligopolies and so on, usually through the use of tax money, and through various slanted regulations. Add to this mix a dearth of reporting viewpoints for the masses, and it becomes a problem. The solution to this, however, is most certainly not a planned economy.
Thoroughly debunked, let me guess, by a foaming plethora of anticapitalist think tanks? Colour me not impressed. For starters, you have no clue how bad it would have been with a market that did not self-correct. Such as... The old soviet union. Capitalism has many flaws, but if bread grows too expensive, someone will produce it cheaper and outcompete the previous companies. There has to my knowledge not been bread queues in the US. Consider yourself blessed that you did not grow up in the old eastern bloc, my friend.