Flowing Monk can only pull that move 1/day/monk level...
Also, style feats aren't core, if that matters.
Dipping isn't likely to be worth it unless...
If you're allowed to pick up exotic feats through archetypes, then Dawnflower Dervish 1. You won't get many rounds of the Battle Dance Inspire Courage (though you can pick up some more with Extra Performance) and may not get any of the Bard spellcasting at all, but you'll get the ability to use a scimitar with your dexterity added to attack and damage. Perfect for playing a high-dexterity Elven Magus.
If feats are CORE only how do you get Kirin Style? Unless you by CORE meen the core line and in that case Kirin Style are still a bad option?
I suggest you go straigth Magus stats look ok but i would take only 14(16) in int and 14(16) in dex from tha start. Use a rapier and get Arcane deed(precise strike) and flamboyant arcana at level 3. Unless the Ban on ultimate class is actually advanced class guide and the stuff from that book.
You May even consider getting weapon finesse and upping dex to 16(18) and lowering str to 14 it will only cost you 1 point of damage and you will get more AC and to hit and in time the damage you get from str is not gonna win you the war with you having level to dam from level 7(if you drop blade bound you will have it from level 3). Use frost bite as your go to Spell for damage Spell strike it will save you spells and boost damage just fine.
You should not take monk levels unless you have at least some wisdom. IMOP.
If all ACG stuff is out i suggest you look up Walters guide to the Magus and follow his Str magus suggestions.
Edit: and welcome to the boards:)
Stats. No idea. Really.
Playing with the points I've come to:STR 16
DEX 13 (15)
CON 12
INT 15 (17)
WIS 10
CHA 8 (6)
I'm more of a fan of the straight magus than the kensai myself. With that, you need to either go Dervish Dance (which it appears you won't be allowed to do with only core feats) or Power Attack. Sounds like the strength-based magus is the way for you. In that case, you'll definitely want to put the extra in strength instead of dex.
For traits - Magical Lineage (Shocking Grasp) is basically required.
For feats - Power Attack, Improved Initiative, Improved Critical, Intensified Spell, Empower Spell, Maximize Spell are the ones to aim for.
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Magical Lineage (Shocking Grasp) isn't required. But it is nice to have. A magus can do completely fine without it. If you are multiclassing, Magical Knack is required so you don't stunt your caster levels because multiclassing a magus is a horrible idea. That being said, since you can pick 2 from one category get both. I took a trait to make perception a class skill and Defensive Strategist (must worship Torag) so that I'm not flat-footed at the start of combat (being a dex-based fighter and rolling poorly on init sucks).
I would highly recommend you ask your GM if you can pick up either slashing or fencing grace from the Advanced Class Guide or Advanced Class Origins (respectively). That will make you much less MAD and let you bump your most important stats (int then dex then con).
You've got a paladin and a cleric in your party so cha isn't important. He can just be an introverted skill monkey. My tiefling magus's stats looked like this at lvl 1.
str 9
dex 16 (18)
con 14
int 16 (18)
wis 10
cha 7 (5)
If you don't mind giving up the arcana, kensai is really good. It gives you the weapon focus you need for fencing/slashing grace (again, ask your GM--you've already got 2ish potentially str-based fighters). If your campaign is going to go to high levels (teens) then bladebound isn't worth it. If it's only going to 12ish then it totally is. You won't have to buy armor or a weapon so you can spend your money on the cool fun/must have stuff that usually comes later. But if you're going to go to high levels it's not worth it because you can't customize your weapon.
edit:
EDIT: Magical lineage is a quite pointless trait since there's no metamagic decent enough to use. Maybe extend spell for a buff.
It's incredibly not pointless, it's highly effective and almost every magus has it. It's definitely not required, but in no way is it pointless. At higher levels, it lets you cast an Intensified Shocking Grasp as a lvl 1 spell that does 10d6 damage. So you can fill all your lvl 1 slots (now numerous) with highly damaging spells. And since most magus also use an 18-20 crit weapon, it gets doubled quite often.
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Well, I don't understand why you can take most classes, but you can't take feats from books that those classes come from but your GM is the boss. Also, it's not munchkining, it's letting you do what the fighter and paladin (and maybe cleric, idk his build) is already doing but it's costing you three feats. (weapon finesse, weapon focus, and fencing/slashing grace) "The same thing" as in using a single stat for attck and damage rolls. The fighters only need str and con and a little dex. Your GM is telling you that you need int, str, con, and a little dex when you could have int, dex, and con--which is still more than the fighter needs.
Well, since you'll be str-based (I'm sorry), that leaves your choices with a Rapier or Scimitar, and of the two, a scimitar since you can still use it two-handed. Those are your options because of the high critical threat range. Spellstrike you can do while two-handing a weapon. Spell Combat requires one hand available (i.e. not both hands on the weapon). If you don't want a high-crit weapon, then the Dwarven War-Axe is an excellent choice as your kensai weapon because it's a d10 x3 weapon that you can use one-handed with your exotic proficiency in it.
If you can't convince your GM to let you use either of those two feats, then I suggest going with your first ability spread, but dropping cha one further so you can increase the dex by one more because that extra dex is going to help more (more dodge (which you need as a kensai), reflex, and higher skills for skills you're already good at) than that extra point of charisma--you're already a -2, what's one more?.
if you only have the spells from the core book as well. I guess the Frostbite Spell is out. With that i mind i think a str based magus, pehaps a staff magus is a Nice way to go. It can start with somthing like:
Human staff magus
Str 16
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 10
1.Weapon focus(quaterstaff)
H.Weapon spec(quaterstaff)
3.power attack
5. Combat expertise
5. Improved trip(wits Spell combat and truestrike make everybody fall)
7. Improved disarm
9. Improved initiative
11. Combat reflexes(pehaps get this sooner)
11.improved critical(quaterstaff)
13. Around here you will most likely be more of an expert than i am.
For arcanas get a familiar at level 3, empower magic at level 6( Nice to keep the occational blasting Spell relevant), accurate strike at 9(i assume that will be ok even if it is a arcana from UC), and Spell blending for false life and heroism at level 12.
Level increases goes to str and both int and str have prioity when it comes to items that boost stats.
You figth with the staff in 2 hands most of the time some times you enlarge person to control a area. If you can get spells from other books than the core book i suggest using Frostbite and monsterous physique the first to boost damage and the second to get big scary monster forms that keep equipment.
Use the staff in 2 hands most of the time. Later use truestrike and a combat maneuver with Spell combat when it makes sense.
This is not the Perfect magus but it will be fun and playable all the way to the top.
I find it interesting that some people consider Vital Strike a one shot use but not Intensified Shocking Grasps.
I can Vital Strike every round at my highest BAB, all day every day. Can't say the same for Shocking Grasp.
I really don't care to get into the math as to which is more effectively. I am pretty confident I can prove it does more damage than Power Attack or more than just about any other feat you care to name.
At the end of the day the choice whether to go a Strength based vs Dex base Magus is largely one of style.
I really don't care to get into the math as to which is more effectively. I am pretty confident I can prove it does more damage than Power Attack or more than just about any other feat you care to name.
You can't Vital Strike with a Cast + Move + Spellstrike combo or Spell Combat, so I'm not sure why a Magus would take it.
The thing about only having core rules Weapon Finesse is that your sword damage is going to be much lower; with only 5d6 maximum Shocking Grasp that matters even more than it usually would. It's certainly doable, but it's easier to find ways to shore up weaker defenses on a strength-based Magus than to improve damage on a dex-based one.
If you're allowed to take style feats with a Master of Many Styles level, the one thing that just might be of use would be to take the Crane Style chain around level 7 with a strength-based Magus to shore up your defenses and possibly improve offense. It hurts to lose a point of BAB and then another point of attack when using Crane stuff, but you're getting +5AC in general, +2AC against one enemy you choose every round, and possibly a free extra attack so... it might just be worth it.
You make some valid points. You are then trading offense for better defence, which, is not necessarily what we are talking about here.
I can see the advantage of a Dex over Strength based build. I'm certainly not dissing it. I just believe the primary reason for choosing one over the other is purely for concept. There's not a clear winner here in my opinion. Dex is *probably* better when you factor in saving throws and AC but that's not the way I'd choose to play a magus :)
There are many threads on Vital Strike here and elsewhere online. I'm not going to do your research for you. The math is there if you want to find it.
Suffice to say there is sufficient evidence that it is useful and that it convinced me. I think the biggest issue with the feat is mostly a lack of creativity and commitment in maximising its utility compared to other feats which are brain dead easy to use.
Again, I'm not saying it is the be all end all, only that it is useful and I believe is wrong to write it off.
SUNDER. And maneuver mastery:sunder.
Of course, you'll end up losing cash if you start chopping +3 weapons in half, but with an adamantine katana in your hands, it'll be really easy to accomplish. If you have a lot of human/humanoid enemies, I'm guessing there'll be more than enough opportunities to smash people's spears and clubs into smithereens. Take that Sundering shards spell too, for giggles. It isn't much damage, but hey, it's kind of funny, and you can cast it hours in advance of combat.
Anyway, combat maneuvers for the win, otherwise, you're kinda screwed in not being able to just take extra hexes and other feats not in core.
Don't forget improved initiative, and improved critical. Both very handy, particularly improved crits. better to have that +5 weapon than a +4 keen anyway.
Edit: oh, and yes to arcane strikes. at level 16 its like +4 damage? but no penalty to hit. Only problem; swift action to use it. Still, once you slap your arcane point onto your weapon to make it glowy, you'll have 10 rounds of swift actions free for other things. Power attack at BAB 12: -4, +8 damage. Or arcane strike for +4 damage. Up to you, but I'd say better to hit twice at +4 damage than miss once at +8, especially if you miss on your spellstrikes...
Why bother with the Sunder stuff? Just Spell Combat -> True Strike.
Improved Critical is... gonna depend on you. On the one hand, you can't natively get a Keen weapon because of the Black Blade. On the other, Keen is one of the better things to add with the arcane pool. If you have a better plan for augmentation in mind than Keen, take Improved Critical. If not, take Keen.
Arcane Strike's... okay. Honestly I'd move Weapon Focus up; the to-hit matters in the early levels. If you want Arcane Strike later, well, it's decent damage at least.
depends on how forgiving your gm is, really. Sunder is great for if your gm puts you up against humanoid enemies of similar power to the pcs. Nobody ever thinks to take a high CMD vs sunders (through gear or feats, etc) so if you remove someone's ability to hit you, the fight is won. Otherwise, you're depending on your sheer deeps to kill a barbarian/heavy armor fighter in one round. Even if you're buff as hell, you're taking the chance that he'll not crit you, or just smash you with some heavy powerattack/furious focus build in his round. It's really easy to chop a hafted weapon or polearm into nothingness if you spec toward sunders. Katanas seem like a good theme for chopping people's goodies up too.
If your GM throws mostly monster stuff at you, then, sure, lose the sunder. But if you go up against a lot of weapon wielding npcs, It's great, particularly when you've got what's essentially a +5 weapon.
Anyway, agreed about weapon focus. Take it as soon as possible, rather than at level 9. Take critical focus later on too when you can. Sucks to have a high crit chance and lose it due to a crappy confirm roll (doesn't seem likely when you're looking at a character sheet that says +19/+14 attack, but I watch it happen all the time and constantly hear the grumbling of my players, especially when they're wielding some 20 to crit weapon; once that ac 30 enemy rolls in, you'll wish you had it the first time you fail a crit check.)
Edit: oh yes, almost forgot - People forget that Sunder is really nice when confronted by npcs who are hiding behind some crazy reach weapon tactics. If they can reach you with the spear, you don't have to subject yourself to 2 AoO's to break the line. Snicker-snack, your polearm is now a club. Nerfed!
My point is not on Sunder as a tactic.
My point is that if a Magus is interested in Sundering something, he doesn't need the feats. The same is true to trip or disarm. True Strike applies to any maneuver roll that you can use a weapon on (and maybe all of them, but I'm not certain of that).
aha, you have a point. Though, why not use both, lol. Having the feat also makes it harder for enemies to do it to you, and it also makes it so that attempting a sunder doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity (most important part of the feat, really)
To be fair, if you take an AoO without the feat, the damage you take is deducted from your CMB. That said, a +20 is going to be difficult to overcome regardless.
AoO from sunder occurs before you roll for the sunder. So, if you go to smash that berserker's axe, he swings (and probably hits you, at max AB) then you get to try chopping it in half. So, yes, sunder feat lol, i 'm not trying to come off like some kind of sunder addict, really. Just saying, if you *are* going the maneuver route, the feats aren't entirely inferior to true strike. Plus, you may want to do certain feats more or less often, so if it's a once-in-a-week thing to sunder, just forget it and hit them with a sharp object. If it's part of a constant strategy (same goes for trips/disarms) where you use it for any/every foe, then take the feat if you can afford it, getting AoO'd is always calculated first, and that's sucky. Consider trips: if you trip someone and they try to get up, they proc an AoO from you. If you use that AoO to trip, it occurs while they're on the ground still. If you succeed on this second trip, nothing happens. They get up right afterward. So, disarm them instead. Now they get up, but they lost the weapon. They go to pick it up - AoO. etc etc. It's more of a flair thing, and a lot of extra rolling, but with the right build a magus can be as effective at battlefield control as a fighter-type of the same level, *and* still have spells.
I donno, I'm just saying, everyone builds magus for pure damage, I think they've got a lot more potential, especially in team building. Build for cc's or hell, even for support, and you can be really adaptable. Sunder is just one way you can do that. Hell, take a Kensai with a whip, or a myrmidiarch with a bow or throwing axes. It's just funny, in the last week there have been about 5 discussions about how to build a magus, and it always boils down to a hexmage/bladebound. I'm not knocking on that, i mean, there are only like 8 archetypes or whatever, just saying, that any magus already has damage. Why not throw in some CC or something on the side, that they can also do?
As a halfway point, may I suggest this feat?
Prerequisite(s): Base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: Once per day as a move action, you can gain the benefit of a combat feat that you do not possess for 1 minute. You must otherwise meet the feat's requirements.
Special: If you have the martial flexibility class feature, this feat instead grants you one additional use per day of that ability.
If you want to get an Improved Maneuver, you can still do so while having access to other feats. The once a say limit does hurt though.
yeah pretty much every maneuver feat has one of two prereqs: power attack or combat expertise. Since you already have power attack worked into the build, you could always just take one of those feats: sunder, bullrush, overrun, drag, . Overrun can be really effective if your strength/cmb is high enough, especially if you just go really deep into it, but less so for a magus, who really depends on full attack actions to get the most out of their spellcombat/spellstrike. Can't spellstrike on a charge, I don't think. Can you? Pretty sure you can't anyway. Counts as a casting action (which is a standard action, unless you're using spell combat), and charges are a specific kind of attack action, not a move+standard action.
Anyway, that's why I originally went with sunder, you've already got the prereq. But I think Trip would be a better path to take anyway - with your lower bab, maybe you don't want to be using powerattack anyway. More than one way to disable the enemy; with a big fat +4 to hit a prone... trip, then spellstrike 'em while they're down. And you won't lose any money by chopping people's +2 weapons in half, if they got 'em. (might be 1 in a hundred fights it happens, but when it does, your teammates might wince a little)
I had a magus that was strength based with a katana. In most battles i would use expedisious retreat and shield and frostbite. The first depends of cause on how spread out battles are in your game. Later mirror image was important as well but generally my damage was good with Power attack, arcane pool stuff decent str and two handing when not spell combatting.
But if you use flamboyant arcana that tactic is now no longer om the optimal group.
A couple of questions about allowed rules - I get anything in CRB
Magus is in ultimate magic - can you use ultimate magic materials? Just the Magus? The spells? You say "no ultimate books", but then said that you could use monstrous physique because it's on the basic magus list.
Classes and archetypes are on that site, so you can use them - but you can't use materials from those books? Or you can, but only if they're accessible in spanish?
Looking at that site, it's hard (for me - my spanish is baaad) to see what's available - e.g. there's a magic items section but it doesn't actually have categories for weapon abilities.
It sounds like your GM is going to be generally against making any adjustments, accommodations, or allow anything outside of the stated stuff (like a feat or a magic weapon property?) if it isn't from one of those sources?
Frankly, Magi are great without dipping into other classes (honestly, Paizo has designed most classes in this way). You'd not gain much from multiclassing, and it seems the GM isn't fond of multiclassing anyway - so just go with a basic Magus. If you want to 'spice it up' a bit, then yeah, go with a Kensai, or perhaps Bladebound - but remember that Bladebound is a bit of a plot burden on the GM to be played right. Honestly, though, I'd just stick with a Straight Magus. Then add the flavor you desire via weapon, spell, feat, and arcana selection. All of the basic magus abilities are great, so swapping them out for just different sometimes great abilities is not really necessary.
Honestly, the Magus is such a well designed class, it's hard to make a terrible one. My favorite character in the last many years has been a Soul Forger - which is probably the weakest archetype for the class (though it DOES replace your hated Counterstrike) - and it was still a blast.
You were having issues with kensai being MAD in one of your previous posts. i think making sure you can take precise strike at level 3 is a important way to fix this MADness. Put str to 14 and dex to 18 and Pick finesse at level 1and use a rapire or a wakasashi. At 3 you can take flamboyant arcana and extra arcana: arcane deed(precise strike) that will net you your level to damage. And wont be taking stuff outside the class or the core rule book. you dont get dex to damage, because that is not in the books you guys use, but level to damage is a not bad at all. I would take one point from int and up wis with 2 because i would spend every stat increase in dex.
This will cost you 2 points of damage and one point of AC at level one but it will be well worth it past level 3.
Some good advices there Cap, thanks. Buuuut.... Flamboyant arcana is from Advanced Class Guide :(
I've "almost" managed to convice our GM to give us access to some more feats, but right now it's still a no. I'm working my way for Enforcer at least...
That's the main reason I've such a spread selection of stats. I've even thought to roll 'em and pray for the results (we have the chance to roll for stats, but then we stick to them).Still undecided if the trip line is worth it or not. The Combat expertise req is killing me.
So far:
1- Spell Combat
1- Arcane pool
1- Exotic weapon: Katana
1- Weapon focus: Katana
1- Canny defense
1- Bonus: Armor of the pit
2- Spell strike
3- Arcane strike (not like I have many uses for swifts right now)
3- Black blade
4- Perfect strike
5- Power attack
5- Craft wonderous items
6- Arcane accuracy
7- Feat: ?
7- Fighter training (-3)
7- Iaijutsu
8- Improved spell combat
9- Critical focus
9- Critical perfection
10- Fighter training (1/2) (I'd really love to know the point of this)
11- Bleeding critical
11- Bonus feat: ?
11- Superior reflexes
12- Arcana
13- Shatter defenses
13- Iaijutsu focus
14- Greater spell combat
15- Feat: ?
15- Bane blade
16- CounterstrikeEither level 7 or 11 should be Dazzling display for shatter defenses at 13. I like the idea of an AoE debuff with intimidate
ohh sorry was under the impression that you could use stuff directly relatet to your class no matter the book.
I would go with a normal magus or a blade bound then and put on some armor. Pehaps use a pole arm the first few levels and use the spells to cast shield. The arcane pool will keep you on par with full bab classes until they get +4and better weapons and by then magic will make you better.
Give up this dangerous adventuring life. Come back home to the farm, marry that nice girl down the road. Give me some grandchildren.
Honestly, Tieflings are better when you have access to more materials, but the way you are built you can't really take advantage of the race.
I suggest human, straight magus.
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You have a racial +2 you can put literally anywhere and be fine, I recommend STR personally, but you have a lot of options.
Traits: Magical Lineage (Shocking Grasp); Reactionary; Lore Seeker (Shocking Grasp, Shield/buff spells); Social Trait to pick up a skill
lvl 1) Combat Casting; Improved Initiative
lvl 3) Arcane Accuracy; Heighten Spell
lvl 5) Intensified Spell; Preferred Spell (Shocking Grasp)
lvl 6) Familiar/ Spell Blending (to pick up utility spells off the wizard list)
lvl 7) Weapon Focus/Arcane Strike
lvl 9) Empower Spell; Accurate Strike
lvl 11) Weapon Specialization, Spell Penetration
lvl 12) Devoted Blade
lvl 13) Quicken Spell
lvl 15) Bane Blade; Spell Perfection (Shocking Grasp)
I know it seems like we spend a lot of resources really early on shocking grasp, but it pays off later when you can essentially convert your arcane pool points into free 15d6 burst damage on a 1 for 1 basis.
At early levels there is no spell more important than magic weapon. It is the best buff and damage spell you have. Remember to initiate spell combat first, cast it to get a +1 weapon, then use your arcane bond to get yourself up to +2 (at level 1). With a 16 STR you end up getting damage that matches a barbarian that lasts 10 rounds, which is longer than a barbarian's rage at the same level.
If no one else in the group has wizard levels, don't be afraid to take the arcana Spell Blending to get some gems like Rope Trick or Knock. At that rate, taking Scribe Scroll probably won't hurt either.
At later levels (starting at 5th actually) you never prepare Shocking Grasp, you just always have the option of casting it thanks to preferred spell. And thanks to magical lineage, starting at 5th level you can also intensify it giving you 6d6 damage for a 1st level spell slot, which can be recalled with a swift action and 1 arcane pool point. This means you can prepare utility spells or buff spells, then cast them and get the spell slot back to convert spontaneously into burst damage later which is very efficient with your resources.
Later on you pick up more metamagic feats to specialize the spell, letting you Empower or Quicken it, and once you get Spell Perfection, you can do either with a 1st level spell slot, meaning you can just recall it with 1 arcane pool point.
Don't forget to always have Arcane Mark prepared, since it is a touch spell you can go mask of zorro on your enemies and get a free second attack like a monk's flurry of blows at early levels, since you have that awesome +2 weapon thanks to your magic weapon strategy, you will be wrecking enemies left and right.