Should I allow the Elemental Shaman (Druid Archetype) ?


Advice and Rules Questions

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I will look into posting the 3rd party source for where this archetype can from, but for now I mainly wish to check balance and see if any can see something broken or OP about this archetype before allowing it in my campaign. If anyone has the source and can tell me it would allow searching for where it comes from easier.

Elemental Shaman (Druid Archetype)
AIR SHAMAN
Nature Bond: An air shaman does not gain an animal companion. She instead must take the Air domain as her nature bond. In addition, the air shaman gains Aquan as a bonus language.
Elemental Empathy (Ex): At 1st level an air shaman gains elemental empathy. She adds her druid level on Diplomacy checks to improve the attitude of air elementals and creatures with the Air subtype.
Elemental Transformation (Su): At 2nd level, an air shaman may adopt one aspect of an air elemental while retaining her normal form. She gains one of the following bonuses: movement (fly speed 30 feet [average], the druid must be 5th level to select this bonus), skills (+4 racial bonus on Acrobatics, Escape Artist and Fly checks), reactions (+2 racial bonus to initiative, +2 dodge bonus to AC), defenses (resist electricity 5, +2 to CMD to resist or escape a grapple), or elemental weapons (2 wind attacks for 1d6 damage for a Medium druid). While using elemental transformation, an air shaman may speak normally.
Using this ability is a standard action at 2nd level, a move action at 7th level, and a swift action at 12th level. The air shaman may use this ability for a number of minutes per day equal to her druid level. These minutes do not need
to be consecutive, but they must be used in 1-minute increments. This is a polymorph effect and cannot be used while the druid is using another polymorph effect, such as wild shape.
Totemic Summons (Su): At 5th level, an air shaman may cast summon nature’s ally as a standard action when summoning air elementals. Summoned elementals gain temporary hp equal to her druid level. She can reduce the level of the summoning spell by one by summoning an air elemental one step smaller (e.g., summoning a Medium air elemental instead of a Large air elemental). She can also increase the level of the summoning required by one to apply the advanced template or increase the size of the summoned elemental by one. She may increase the spell level by two to apply the advanced template and increase the size of the summoned elemental at the same time.
This ability replaces a thousand faces.
Wild Shape (Su): At 6th level, an air shaman’s wild shape ability functions at her druid level -2 and cannot wildshape into her opposed element. If she takes on the form of an air elemental, she instead uses her druid level +2.
Bonus Feat: At 9th level and every four levels thereafter, an air shaman gains one of the following bonus feats: Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, Run, Skill Focus (fly), or Wind Stance. She must meet the prerequisites for these bonus feats.
This ability replaces venom immunity.

EARTH SHAMAN
Nature Bond: An earth shaman does not gain an animal companion. She instead must take the Earth domain as her nature bond. In addition, the earth shaman gains Terran as a bonus language.
Elemental Empathy (Ex): At 1st level an earth shaman gains elemental empathy. She adds her druid level on Diplomacy checks to improve the attitude of earth elementals and creatures with the earth subtype.
Elemental Transformation (Su): At 2nd level, an earth shaman may adopt an aspect of the earth element while retaining her normal form. This ability functions as the air shaman ability, but the druid may select from the following bonuses: movement (burrow speed 20 feet), senses (tremorsense 60 ft.), defenses (+2 natural armor bonus to AC, resist acid 5), or elemental weapons (earthen fist for 1d8 damage for a Medium druid, +2 to CMB on
bull rush attempts and overrun checks).
Totemic Summons (Su): At 5th level, an earth shaman may cast summon nature’s ally as a standard action when summoning earth elementals. Summoned elementals gain temporary hit points equal to her druid level. This ability otherwise functions as the air shaman ability.
Wild Shape (Su): At 6th level, an earth shaman’s wild shape ability functions at her druid level -2 and cannot wild shape into her opposed element. If she takes on the form of an earth elemental, she instead uses her druid level +2.
Bonus Feat: At 9th level and every four levels thereafter, an earth shaman gains one of the following bonus feats: Diehard, Great Fortitude, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Great Fortitude, or Toughness. She must meet the prerequisites for these bonus feats.
This ability replaces venom immunity.

FIRE SHAMAN
Nature Bond: A fire shaman does not gain an animal companion. She instead must take the fire domain as her nature bond. In addition, the fire shaman gains Ignan as a bonus language.
Elemental Empathy (Ex): At 1st level a fire shaman gains elemental empathy. She adds her druid level on Diplomacy checks to improve the attitude of fire elementals and creatures with the fire subtype.
Elemental Transformation (Su): At 2nd level, a fire shaman may adopt an aspect of the fire element while retaining her normal form. This ability functions as the air shaman ability, but the druid may select from the following bonuses: movement (+20 enhancement bonus to land speed), senses (+4 racial bonus to Perception, Blind-Fight feat), defenses (resist fire 10, which increases to resist fire 15 at 5th level), or special attack (burn for 1d4 damage).
Totemic Summons (Su): At 5th level, a fire shaman may cast summon nature’s ally as a standard action when summoning fire elementals. Summoned elementals gain temporary hit points equal to her druid level. She can reduce the level of the summoning spell by one by summoning a fire elemental one step smaller (e.g., summoning a Medium fire elemental instead of a Large fire elemental). She can also increase the level of the summoning required by one to apply the advanced template or increase the size of a summoned elemental by one. Finally, she may increase the spell level by two to both apply the advanced template and increase the size of the summoned elemental at the same time. This ability replaces a thousand faces.
Wild Shape (Su): At 6th level, a fire shaman’s wild shape ability functions at her druid level -2 and cannot wild shape into her opposed element. If she takes on the form of a fire elemental, she instead uses her druid level +2.
Bonus Feat: At 9th level and every four levels thereafter, a fire shaman gains one of the following bonus feats: Ability Focus (burn), Dodge, Mobility, Iron Will, or Wind Stance. She must meet the prerequisites for these bonus feats. This ability replaces venom immunity.

WATER SHAMAN
Nature Bond: A water shaman does not gain an animal companion. She instead must take the Water domain as her nature bond. In addition, the water shaman gains Aquan as a bonus language.
Elemental Empathy (Ex): At 1st level a water shaman gains elemental empathy. She adds her druid level on Diplomacy checks to improve the attitude of water elementals and creatures with the water subtype.
Elemental Transformation (Su): At 2nd level, a water shaman may adopt an aspect of the water element while retaining her normal form. This ability functions as the air shaman ability, but the druid may select from the following bonuses: movement (swim speed 30 feet), water breathing (as the spell, the druid must be 5th level to select this bonus), skills (+4 racial bonus on Escape Artist and Swim checks), drench (see Pathfinder RPG Bestiary), or elemental weapons (2 water bursts for 1d6 damage for a Medium druid, +4 damage against creatures of the fire subtype).
Totemic Summons (Su): At 5th level, a water shaman may cast summon nature’s ally as a standard action when
summoning water elementals. Summoned elementals gain temporary hit points equal to her druid level. She can reduce the level of the summoning spell by one by summoning a water elemental one step smaller (e.g., summoning a Medium water elemental instead of a Large water elemental). She can also increase the level of the summoning required by one in order to apply the advanced template or increase the size of summoned elemental by one. Finally, she may increase the spell level by two to both apply the advanced template and increase the size of the summoned elemental at the same time.
This ability replaces a thousand faces.
Wild Shape (Su): At 6th level, a water shaman’s wild shape ability functions at her druid level -2 and cannot wild shape into her opposed element. If she takes on the form of a water elemental, she instead uses her druid level +2.
Bonus Feat: At 9th level and every four levels thereafter, a water shaman gains one of the following bonus feats: Brew Potion, Cleave, Dodge, Endurance, Great Fortitude, or Skill Focus (swim). She must meet the prerequisites for these bonus feats.
This ability replaces venom immunity.

RELATED FEAT
Elemental Focus [General]
You have learned how to cajole and skillfully manipulate the spirit of one of the elements.
Prerequisites: Cha 13+, ability to cast at least three spells of the appropriate elemental type.
Benefit: When the feat is chosen, select an energy type (acid, cold, electricity, fire or sonic). Add +2 to the
Difficult Class for all saving throws against spells with the appropriate energy type.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take this feat, it applies to a new energy type.


I think this is perfectly fine and flavorful. I might not even make elemental focus a feat, just something a druid of the sort gets at say level 7. I see no need for a CHA prereq at all, doesn't make much sense since druids are already spread pretty thin.

Dark Archive

I could, but I would wish to avoid tinkering with the archetype if I can help it.... though I guess adding the feat as a ability wouldn't cause any problems. Glad to hear you think it is fine, I see it at flavorful myself.


There is already a elemental focus Spell and it is only half as good as the one you have there.
And the archtype looks ok. But i dont see why they get bonus feats. They are not really worse off than normal druids. And Venom immunity is not worth several feats. So it looks like a power up to this AT over normal druid. And are elemental empathy and elemental transformation supposed to be free or do they give up a normal class feature to get them?

Dark Archive

@Cap. Darling
I believe elemental empathy and elemental transformation replace the spellcasting that is lost for 'specializing' in a single element. I would rule that Elemental Shamans can only cast elemental related spells of the element they specialize in. At least, as the DM that is what I assume.

As a Fire Shaman you can cast only elemental spells with the fire descriptor and summon fire elementals, as a Water Shaman you can cast only elemental spells with the water descriptor and summon water elementals, exc. Perhaps though it only applies to summoning, that could be out it balances out. That is how I would rule it.


Making the summons take a standard action AND giving extra hitpoints adds a powerful feature to an already powerful class. Having thousand faces be the thing being replaced seems a bit... cheesy.

Adding the ability to apply templates brings this ability right to the brink of broken.

Not game breaking, but makes me nervous. I wouldn't allow this as a DM, but that's mainly cause it isn't Paizo.

That being said, looks like a very cool archetype. Would consider playing.


JonathonWilder wrote:

@Cap. Darling

I believe elemental empathy and elemental transformation replace the spellcasting that is lost for 'specializing' in a single element. I would rule that Elemental Shamans can only cast elemental related spells of the element they specialize in. At least, as the DM that is what I assume.

As a Fire Shaman you can cast only elemental spells with the fire descriptor and summon fire elementals, as a Water Shaman you can cast only elemental spells with the water descriptor and summon water elementals, exc. Perhaps though it only applies to summoning, that could be out it balances out. That is how I would rule it.

I think the limit to only cast elemental spells from there own element will be heavyly in fires favor. But the not summoning others elementals than there own is hardly a balancing thing since there is still Lots of good critters on the list. That and the free feats make it look like a power up, but a flavor full one, to a already powerfull class.


You give the air shaman aquan as a bonus language while I guess it should be auran.

Dark Archive

Well I am sure there can be some tinkering done to the class.

Just a Guess wrote:
You give the air shaman aquan as a bonus language while I guess it should be auran.

That can be fixed


JonathonWilder wrote:

@Cap. Darling

I believe elemental empathy and elemental transformation replace the spellcasting that is lost for 'specializing' in a single element. I would rule that Elemental Shamans can only cast elemental related spells of the element they specialize in. At least, as the DM that is what I assume.

As a Fire Shaman you can cast only elemental spells with the fire descriptor and summon fire elementals, as a Water Shaman you can cast only elemental spells with the water descriptor and summon water elementals, exc. Perhaps though it only applies to summoning, that could be out it balances out. That is how I would rule it.

As written, theres no requirement to only cast spells of their prefered element, they are just BETTER at certain things with that element. These are all effectively identical to the other shaman archetypes for the druid (starting with the bear shaman in the apg).

Theres no restriction on only casting spells with your chosen totem or only summoning your chosen totem.

The balancing factor here is, first, that you lose options in natures bond (in terms of power, the animal comapion is leaps and bounds ahead of the domain). And your wild shaping is less effective except when turning into your totem. The 2 most potent class features of the druid are reduced in capability. Thats more then enough to balance out some minor transformations (all of which are more or less replaced once you can wild shape) and standard action summons of 1 thing. In the hierarchy of druids being baddass, this is down pretty far on the list.

Edit: I wouldn't allow the feat though. There is already an elemental focus feat. It only adds +1.


alexd1976 wrote:

Making the summons take a standard action AND giving extra hitpoints adds a powerful feature to an already powerful class. Having thousand faces be the thing being replaced seems a bit... cheesy.

Adding the ability to apply templates brings this ability right to the brink of broken.

Not game breaking, but makes me nervous. I wouldn't allow this as a DM, but that's mainly cause it isn't Paizo.

That being said, looks like a very cool archetype. Would consider playing.

Again this functions identically to the archetypes in the Advanced Players guide excpet its a type of elemental instead of bears or felines or whatever.

Basically the point is to allow the player to summon a single creature at any level of summon natures ally. Though the creator here tried to be clever and screwed it up. It should be changing the size of elemental to move it up or down one spell level, it should be applying the giant or young templates to move it up or down one level.

It should read:

Totemic Summons (Su): At 5th level, an air shaman may cast summon nature’s ally as a standard action when summoning air elementals. Summoned elementals gain temporary hp equal to her druid level. She can reduce the level of the summoning spell by applying the young template to an air elemental. She can also increase the level of the summoning required by one by applying the giant or advanced templates to a summoned elemental. She may increase the spell level by two to apply the giant and advanced templates at the same time.
This ability replaces a thousand faces.

So you can summon a small elemental with the young template applied as a Summon natures ally 1 spell (instead of SNA 2). Or you can summon an elder elemental with the giant and advanced templates as a summon natures ally 9 spell instead of SNA 7.

You arent gaining anything there, the higher level spells summon more powerful creatures.

Dark Archive

@Kolokotroni
Thank for explaining that, I wasn't quite sure how to answer the question myself. Glad to see it balances out like the animal shamans.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Third-Party Pathfinder RPG Products / Advice and Rules Questions / Should I allow the Elemental Shaman (Druid Archetype) ? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Advice and Rules Questions