| DM Mathpro |
So I want to run something by you guys and see what you think. I'm starting the Skull and Shackles adventure path tonight for a group of 7 players. Party consists of an Antipaladin, a Slayer, a Rogue, a Cleric, a Keneticist(the new playtest class), a Barbarian, and a Bloodrager. All level 1 of course. I was thinking of starting off with a bang tonight and actually playing out the battle that takes place before the adventure path officially starts. This is an incredibly strong party(mele wise) and I want to ensure that everyone ends up press ganged like they should so I'm trying to figure out the best way to accomplish this.
I was thinking of having Master Scourge and Harrigan(made him a level 4 Swashbuckler) show up with some mook pirates(to keep the slayer and the rogue busy) but I'm afraid this might be a little to much fire power. What do you all think?
Duiker
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No. It goes back to the old rule: don't roll dice if there's no question of outcome. The end result is going to be them in the hold of the ship exactly how the AP starts right? Giving them an illusion of having any agency over what's going to happen tends to leave a bad taste in everyone's mouths.
So what happens when a mook crits and outright kills one of the characters, when the rogue bought a scroll of vanish and ducks out the back when it looks hopeless and disappears, when the slayer escape artists out of the bonds they put him in and does the same, or the bad-touch cleric decides that if they're going down, he's going to channel negative and wipe out all the mooks and the rest of his own party?
Sure, these could be plot hooks in their own right, but since you "want to ensure that everyone ends up press ganged like they should" I'd assume that you're not going to want to, and there will end up being a deus ex machina pulled out of the air to make sure your way happens anyway regardless of player action.
There's a reason that throwing in encounters that they players can't win just to show them how powerful the enemy is tends to be on the lists of things like GMPCs that are just bad ideas in practice.
| lutzsd |
While you are certainly free to do so, I would recommend against it. With such a melee-centric party, it's possible that they could wipe the floor with some low level pirates and Scourge. Keep in mind Scourge has a pretty low AC. A decent strength and full attack bonus at level 1 would would give someone, at worst, a 50/50 chance to hit him. My party mutinied early and completely dominated Scourge, Plugg, and the remaining 8 pirates.
If that were to occur, you would then have to really railroad the party to start the path.
Perhaps you would want to start a little differently: For those that chose a campaign trait that required them to be drugged, maybe the battle starts because they realize something is wrong. Give them 3 good rounds of combat before they start to succumb to the taggit oil and pass out? It will start them off with some severe spite for the bad guys while still getting the AP rolling.
| DM Mathpro |
I'd have everyone I control do non-lethal damage to the players so they end up knocked out like they're supposed to.
Honestly I see the first session being really really heavy on role play with the way I have it set in my head and I just wanted to give them a chance to roll some dice so to speak so they aren't stuck listening to others role play all night. Can make a 4 hour session really really long if you don't feel involved.
| captain yesterday |
I'd just like to point out, how it happens in you head is rarely how it happens at the table. i play with my wife (whom i've happily known for going on 22 years) and my kids (who i've known their entire life) and they throw me for a loop every time, so i wouldn't be surprised if it does go south as others have pointed out.
| Heroshi |
I started my group out in a tavern. The bar was offered free rum because it was the owners 500th bday. Plugg and some men are already in the bar drinking. They roll fort saves and the lowest passes out first. Slowly they all passed out with the last thing they remembered was Plugg standing over them while they were passing out.
I let them roll, but no matter the outcome they eventually passed out. The ones that don't drink get jumped by an amount of pirates that they know they could not win. They yield or get knocked out.
Marik Whiterose
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When I started this AP for a PbP game here on the boards I did something similar. Depending on which trait they took I wrote a brief description of their capture.
Link
The end result was always the same but I thought it was better than the standard "You wake up in a darkened hold" bit.
| MeanMutton |
One of the coolest things about the AP is that it DOES start off with a bang - being kidnapped and stuck on the ship. I don't like the idea of starting with the tavern for two reasons:
1) "So, you're sitting in a tavern" is such a bored, played-out trope in fantasy role-playing. Starting with something completely different is great.
2) It's super railroad. The characters have no control of the situation, the players can't make any decisions which will change the outcome. In all, it's just an exercise in frustration all around.
Spook205
|
One of the coolest things about the AP is that it DOES start off with a bang - being kidnapped and stuck on the ship. I don't like the idea of starting with the tavern for two reasons:
1) "So, you're sitting in a tavern" is such a bored, played-out trope in fantasy role-playing. Starting with something completely different is great.
2) It's super railroad. The characters have no control of the situation, the players can't make any decisions which will change the outcome. In all, it's just an exercise in frustration all around.
We have to admit, the canon opening of the AP isn't just a railroad, its a specific kind of railroad.
I've never played skull and shackles (and probably won't since I've read all the APs >_>) but the fact my character is required to be a boozer always rankled me, especially with the ap itself snarking that if your character wasn't in the tavern getting loaded this isn't the AP for you.
| 2ndGenerationCleric |
I had some fun with it I too started then worn a tavern, and they were giving away ale because it was going to go bad. My group, suspicious of the free drinks, bought the spiced run. The spiced rum had the oil of taggit. So due to constant drinking, all but the druid fell (and the custom race, who got loaded onto the ship with cargo by accident.) Druid pets to go peacefully, but gets knocked out. She decoded to get revenge on every single one of those involved. They're all dead now-most at the hand of the druid.
But I've modified the heck out of this thing, so I may not be the best example
| Paladin of Baha-who? |
Only some of the campaign traits require one to fall prey to the oil of taggit. Some involve being accosted on a pier or in a dark alley.
The opening is not so much a railroad as a filter: Certainly, some individuals who encountered the pressgangers under those circumstances would make a saving throw against the poison, notice its presence and refuse to drink, or escape the kidnappers in the alley. Those people won't be on the ship with the others and therefore don't get to be part of the AP.
Spook205
|
Only some of the campaign traits require one to fall prey to the oil of taggit. Some involve being accosted on a pier or in a dark alley.
The opening is not so much a railroad as a filter: Certainly, some individuals who encountered the pressgangers under those circumstances would make a saving throw against the poison, notice its presence and refuse to drink, or escape the kidnappers in the alley. Those people won't be on the ship with the others and therefore don't get to be part of the AP.
Thats what I meant by a certain kind of railroad. Its advertised as a pirate campaign. What if my character is cagey and canny, and also say a teetotaler? Or what if I'm a Captain Blood style guy who wanted to be a good Andoran navyman who was horrible wronged? Or a privateer?
I still get thrown into the 'you got shanghai'd because...' category. It's a heavy handed gate to shoo out the character concepts which the AP doesn't want, without say, making that point more honestly up front.
This means I could sit down with a lawful good pirate, fully intending to work to putting down other pirates and maybe getting a letter of marque, but nope, I have to be a wolf of the sea.
Reign has a similar issue where the AP actually tries to come up with appropriate railroad options in case any PCs die off, and thus slip the bonds on the Rider curse.
| Paladin of Baha-who? |
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Lawful good != pirate. Privateer, maybe, but even that's shaky. If you want a lawful good character, they could be part of the team until they get off the ship at the beginning of the second book, but I can't see a Lawful Good or Lawful Neutral character being a functional, much less successful, pirate without changing alignment. (Paladins are right out, and it says so in the player's guide.)
The AP is centered around being a wolf of the sea. If you don't want to be that, play something else, or possibly the GM might use this AP as the basis for a significantly different story where you end up being Privateers working for Andoran or something. It's like the Iron Gods AP: if you don't want to play a game where you fight robots with lasers, play a different AP. Or the Wrath of the Righteous: if you want to play an evil character, either the GM will need to significantly alter the AP for you, or you will need to play a different AP.
"Touched by the sea", "Ship's Surgeon", "Ilizmagorti Native", and "Dockside Brawler" all have fluff that can be used by a Good-ish character, particularly the Ship's Surgeon where you go looking for someone in danger, which turns out to be a trap.
While drinking at a tavern called the Formidably Maid in Port Peril last night, you got into a brawl with some of the other patrons. You handled yourself well, but a group of rough-looking characters ganged up on you and overwhelmed you, knocking you unconscious. Fortunately, you were able to conceal your brass knuckles when you were press-ganged, and you begin the campaign with them, regardless of your starting circumstances.
(Good characters can get into brawls too.)
Looking to make your fortune, you hopped aboard a pirate ship in Ilizmagorti, and decided to celebrate your safe arrival in Port Peril with a few drinks at a tavern called the Formidably Maid. There were some suspicious-looking characters there, to be sure, and you decided to give them a wide berth, but as you left, feeling a bit woozy from drink, you were set upon by thugs in a dark alley and knocked unconscious.
(If you don't want to be a drinker, you can take out the 'woozy from drink' part and simply have them attack you and overwhelm you in the alley.)
You were between ships in Port Peril, and after stopping for a drink at a tavern called the Formidably Maid, you happened upon a damsel in distress in the alleyway outside. Thinking you could help, you didn’t notice the thugs hiding nearby, and they caught you unawares. You’ve been on enough ships to know a press gang by the blow of the sap on the back of your neck—you just hope whatever ship you end up on needs a surgeon. Although the majority of your equipment was taken away when you were press-ganged, you managed to hang on to a fully stocked healer’s kit, and you begin the campaign with it, regardless of your starting circumstances.
(This one's the best for a good character -- went off trying to rescue someone and got pressganged for your trouble.)
You came to Port Peril in search of your destiny, and after a few drinks at a tavern called the Formidably Maid, you went down to the docks to take in a view of the sea. The last thing you remember is a blow to the back of your head and the waves rushing up to meet you.
(This is a pretty generic opening but works fine for a good character.)
| Danny Atwood |
A bit late for the original poster, but for those considering the same question:
If you want to run players through their intros in the Formidably Maid you need mature enough players to establish "You do not have the option of 'winning' in this scene. The end result is: you get press-ganged."
Don't roll any dice. There is no random chance here, the outcome is predetermined. Dice imply there is a distinction between success and failure that matters. There is not. However awesome the PCs might be, in this they failed and got kidnapped.
You can have them roleplay any introductions in the tavern. You can give them the freedom to describe exactly how the pirates got the better of them. Maybe they'll fuel you with all sorts of things to use against them later as they explain how they try to prevent the inevitible.
What you cannot give them is the chance to escape their campaign trait and skip out on being included in the AP. You don't want to give them the chance to take out the first book's big bad before the game even starts.