|
I'm trying to determine the following:
1)Can a demiplane exist in the Abyss?
2) If a demiplane did exist in the Abyss, would that demiplane be coterminus and/or coexisting with:
the Ethereal Plane?
the Plane of Shadow?
the Astral Plane?
The Positive Energy Plane?
The Negitive Energy plane?
I'm having trouble sorting out my planar geography as you can see. Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
I believe a demiplane can exist in almost any plane. A Demiplane inside the Abyss would by default be entirely inside the Abyss, and none of those other planes overlap with the Abyss. the Astral plane I think borders the abyss, so there could be a demiplane that is accessible from both, I think.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
A demi-plane connect exist "in" the Abyss, demi-planes exist outside other planes. But if you cast create demi-plane from the Abyss, it would be connected to it.
I think.
Edit: I'm wrong.
You create a small, finite demiplane. You must be on the Astral or Ethereal Plane or on a plane that has access to one of those planes (such as the Material Plane) to cast this spell.
When you cast the spell, you decide whether the demiplane is within the Astral or the Ethereal Plane. It is filled with air or water (decided by you). The plane is generally flat and featureless, such as an earth, stone, water, or wood floor. The “walls” and “ceiling” of the plane may appear like solid earth, stone, wood, or water, or they may end in mist, a featureless void, or a similar unreal-looking border. The plane's environmental conditions are those of a temperate spring day on the Material Plane. You determine the plane's light level (bright, normal, dim, or darkness), which affects the entire plane.
Fortunately, the Astral plane touches all other planes.
So, the restriction about being "on a plane that has access to one of those" is unnecessary since all planes touch the astral plane.
|
|
Interesting. Thanks! Where are you quoting from?
I'm not sure the Astral plane touches all other planes. The reason:
"Astral or Ethereal". I think they can exist exclusive of each other. Not sure...
This raises the question: does the Astral plane contact the Abyss? We know, yes.
But does the Ethereal Plane contact the Abyss? Unsure.
BTW: I've tried to read through the descriptions of the planes in Inner Sea Guide and elsewhere on line...even looked for diagrams.
Total confusion out there and alas...with me too.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The quote is from the spell Create Lesser Demiplane.
You create a small, finite demiplane. You must be on the Astral or Ethereal Plane or on a plane that has access to one of those planes (such as the Material Plane) to cast this spell.
When you cast the spell, you decide whether the demiplane is within the Astral or the Ethereal Plane. It is filled with air or water (decided by you). The plane is generally flat and featureless, such as an earth, stone, water, or wood floor. The “walls” and “ceiling” of the plane may appear like solid earth, stone, wood, or water, or they may end in mist, a featureless void, or a similar unreal-looking border. The plane's environmental conditions are those of a temperate spring day on the Material Plane. You determine the plane's light level (bright, normal, dim, or darkness), which affects the entire plane.
There are no native creatures or plants on this plane, though you may bring some there (if the plane's light is bright or normal, it counts as sunlight for growing plants). The environment of the plane counts as normal terrain for the purpose of effects that target earth, stone, wood, and so on. For example, you could use move earth to create a hill or wall of stone to create a barricade.
When you finish casting this spell, you may bring yourself and up to seven other creatures to the plane automatically by joining hands in a circle. The demiplane is another plane of existence, and therefore is outside the range of any spell or ability that cannot affect or reach other planes. Creatures can only enter the plane by the use of planar travel magic such as astral projection, etherealness, or plane shift. You are considered “very familiar” with your entire demiplane.
As a standard action, you may eject a creature from your demiplane. The creature may resist with a Will saving throw. An ejected creature goes to the closest plane to your demiplane (usually the Astral Plane or the Ethereal Plane, but if you cast this spell on the Material Plane, the creature is sent to the Material Plane). When the spell ends, the plane dissolves, and all creatures in the plane are ejected in this manner with no saving throw. The plane cannot be dispelled, but a creature on the plane can destroy it by using limited wish, mage's disjunction, miracle, or wish and making a successful dispel check.
If you are within the demiplane, you can add to its area by casting the spell again. Alternatively, you may cast this spell again to reset the duration of an existing area to that of your latest casting. If the duration on one area of the demiplane ends and other parts remain, creatures in the expiring area are shunted to remaining areas. If a collapsing portion of the demiplane would leave one section cut off from other sections of the demiplane (for example, if there were three areas connected in a straight line and the center part expired), the stranded sections count as separate demiplanes under your control. You may reconnect these stranded sections by casting the spell again to create a linked area between the two.
You can make this spell permanent with the permanency spell, at a cost of 17,500 gp. If you have cast create lesser demiplane multiple times to enlarge the demiplane, each casting's area requires its own permanency spell.
And from the Game Mastery Guide
Transitive Planes: These three planes have one important common characteristic: each is used to get from one place to another. The Astral Plane (although technically an Outer Plane) is a conduit to all other planes, while the Ethereal Plane and the Shadow Plane both serve as means of transportation within the Material Plane, which they're connected to. These planes have the strongest regular interaction with the Material Plane and can be accessed using various spells. They have native inhabitants as well
As far as your either or scenario. Yes the astral plane and ethereal plane are two separate planes. However, they touch one another. Meaning you can go between the planes directly without having to move through a 3rd plane.
Think About it this way, I live in Kentucky. Kentucky touches West Virginia, Virginia, Tennessee, Missouri, Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio. If I want to go to any of those state I can do so directly from Kentucky. If I want to go to New York, I have to travel through other states to get there.
The Astral plane borders everything.
Based on the info in the Game Mastery Guide, the ethereal plane touches only the material plane, Astral plane, and possibly the Shadow plane.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
A demiplane can be created while you are on the Abyss, but it does not exist "within" the Abyss. It will exist in the Astral Plane or Ethereal Plane depending on your choosing. Note, that technically creat demiplane doesn't move you to the plane. Only creates it. So you can create it from anywhere, but it may require more than one plane shift spell (or equivalent) to reach your demiplane.
Yes, if you choose to place the demiplane on the Astral plane you could access it from any other plane, since the Astral plane is in contact with all other planes.
If you placed it in the ethereal plane you would have to be in the Astral, Material, or possibly Shadow plane to access your demiplane. Or you would have to move from your original plane through one of those to access it.
You mean to move the location of the demiplane to be contained within the Abyss instead of the Astral/Ethreal planes?
Not to me knowledge. I don't think any exist. Wish could possibly do it, but that is very GM subjective. Is there a reason why it needs to be contained within the Abyss?
If you are asking what spell options exist to move you between planes besides plane shift, I'm sure there are others but I'm not super familiar with them. Someone more knowledgable could hopefully comment on that.
When you say a demiplane to the abyss what do you mean?
You technically still have to plane shift to get into your demiplane, even if you are on the plane that it is contained within.
So you don't move the demiplane, you move to the demiplane. If the demiplane is on the astral plane, you can move from any other plane directly to your demiplane by casting a spell like Plane Shift.
|
|
What I aim to do is have an entire demiplane be taken out, through the Astral plane and smack into the middle of another, larger dimension. In this case, the Abyss. So, instead of being in my demiplane, I'd be standing outside it - then "shift" it through the Astral plane into the Abyss and just leave it there.
What he means is he wants a bubble that's exclusively related to the Abyss, making it a separate little hole within the hole that is the abyss.
Kind of like a two-degrees of separation.
(My guess as to why is that he wants it to be like the Abyss for some story-based purpose.)
So much like the shadow relates to the material, the demiplane to the Abyss.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
What he means is he wants a bubble that's exclusively related to the Abyss, making it a separate little hole within the hole that is the abyss.
Kind of like a two-degrees of separation.
(My guess as to why is that he wants it to be like the Abyss for some story-based purpose.)
So much like the shadow relates to the material, the demiplane to the Abyss.
To my knowledge there is not a spell that does that.
However, if you are the GM you can always invent a minor plane that is to the Abyss as the Shadow plane is to the Material, much as Tacticslion mentioned.
Also for what it's worth, as I understand it the Astral plane is a larger version of infinite than the Abyssal plane version of infinite. And I'm not sure that is important, so long as your "demiplane" is smaller than your major plane.
Or, as a GM, allow a variant of the demiplane line that does something like that.
But per RAW there is nothing like what you seem to be looking for.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It does occur to me, that with Create Greater Demiplane you could make a demiplane that has all most of the same planar qualities as the Abyss, though it wouldn't actually be the Abyss it would be close.
The Abyss (Chaotic Evil)
Surrounding the Outer Sphere like the impossibly deep skin of an onion, the layered plane of the Abyss begins as gargantuan canyons and yawning chasms in the fabric of the other Outer Planes, bordered by the foul waters of the River Styx. Coterminous with all of the Outer Planes, the infinite layers of the Abyss connect to one another in constantly shifting pathways. There are no rules in the Abyss, nor laws, order, or hope. The Abyss is a perversion of freedom, a nightmare realm of unmitigated horror where desire and suffering are given demonic form, for the Abyss is the spawning ground of the innumerable races of demons, among the oldest beings in all the Great Beyond.
The Abyss has the following traits:
• Divinely Morphic and Sentient: Deities with domains in the Abyss can alter the plane at will, as can the Abyss itself.
• Strongly Chaos-Aligned and Strongly Evil-Aligned
• Enhanced Magic: Spells and spell-like abilities with the chaotic or evil descriptor are enhanced.
• Impeded Magic: Spells and spell-like abilities with the lawful or good descriptor are impeded.