Can a person toggle on and off a permanent spell?

[Big Blue 22]

Caster places enlarge person on a comrade. He then castes permanency on the enlarged person. Does the target have any ability to turn the enlargement effect on and off?

I think the answer is no and am instead recommending they make an item with 5 uses per day. Thoughts?

[Weirdo]

You can't toggle the effect. If turning it off is important the magic item is your best bet.

EDIT: there may be some permanent effects that can be suppressed, but they would be specific exceptions with clear language indicating such. Enlarge Person is not an exception.

[Lakesidefantasy]

And an interesting side note (which may have ramifications for your daily use item). If you were to drink a potion of enlarge person you would be stuck that way for the duration, because only the brewer of the potion can dismiss the spell.

[Jeff Merola]

Lakesidefantasy wrote:

And an interesting side note (which may have ramifications for your daily use item). If you were to drink a potion of enlarge person you would be stuck that way for the duration, because only the brewer of the potion can dismiss the spell.

Erm, no. From the Potion rules:

Quote:

Potions are like spells cast upon the imbiber. The character taking the potion doesn't get to make any decisions about the effect—the caster who brewed the potion has already done so. The drinker of a potion is both the effective target and the caster of the effect (though the potion indicates the caster level, the drinker still controls the effect).

The first line is about spells like Protection from Energy and the like, not about dismissing the spell.

[Lakesidefantasy]

Jeff Merola wrote:

Lakesidefantasy wrote:

And an interesting side note (which may have ramifications for your daily use item). If you were to drink a potion of enlarge person you would be stuck that way for the duration, because only the brewer of the potion can dismiss the spell.

Erm, no. From the Potion rules:

Quote:

Potions are like spells cast upon the imbiber. The character taking the potion doesn't get to make any decisions about the effect—the caster who brewed the potion has already done so. The drinker of a potion is both the effective target and the caster of the effect (though the potion indicates the caster level, the drinker still controls the effect).

The first line is about spells like Protection from Energy and the like, not about dismissing the spell.

It is debatable.

[Jeff Merola]

If it's debatable, why did you present it as "this is how the rule works"?

And take any rule JJ says with a grain of salt, he's not on the rules team and he's been wrong before.

[Lakesidefantasy]

Well James Jacobs wasn't the only one who weighed in on the question.

What do you think? Are words of dismissal needed to dismiss a potion? If not then why not?

Is the question stupid? Does it cleave too closely to the rules?

[Jeff Merola]

No, the question isn't stupid. I agree that it's debatable, now that I've read that thread. I'm just questioning your original portrayal of the subject as "this is definitely how it works."

[kinevon]

The drinker of a potion with a (D) can dismiss it, using this part of the Dismissable rules: If the spell has no verbal component, you can dismiss the effect with a gesture.

Drinking a potion does not require a command word to complete, and uses no V component, so it is dismissable with a gesture.

[Big Blue 22]

Lakesidefantasy wrote:

And an interesting side note (which may have ramifications for your daily use item). If you were to drink a potion of enlarge person you would be stuck that way for the duration, because only the brewer of the potion can dismiss the spell.

Gee, thanks for hijacking my thread without even answering the original question.

[Kudaku]

By default permanent spells are just that, permanent. Barring an antimagic effect such as antimagic field (which would suppress it) there's no way to turn it on and off.

Edit: However, since you seem open to creating a custom item you could make an item that provides a continuous Enlarge Person effect. Whenever being Large (or larger) becomes inconvenient, simply remove the item and you'd shrink back to your normal size.

[Captain Olivia Quinn]

Yeah, you can't just dismiss a permanent spell. But what you can do is what this character's mother did. She had a ring of Enlarge Person that she had specially made and posed as a half-elf. Since few people have the perception and arcane knowledge to tell she's not, rarely did anyone think to say "Liar! You are a halfling under the effects of an Enlarge Person spell!" especially when you add to it her disguise skill was pretty darn high.