So I was just wondering which would be more effective
I could play with a few different builds. As a note I am playing a half elf. So The option of Ancestral Arms is still on the Table and is actually a big part of what I want to do. I could be way off with my ideas or couldve missed out completely on something. So help is much appreciate. Also I wanted to focus around the Feinting mechanic as it first with my character concept.
So First Idea:
Dual Wield Kukris. I have read a guide on fighters saying that this the optimal tool through level 20. It also gives me an extra Talent to play with as well.
Idea 2:
One Kukri, One Scimitar. This ups the potential damage out put by two but eats up slot for Rogue's Finesse. Which I am fine with. This is actually the build I am currently planning on and was going to finalize until I remembered something I did with my Magus. (And for flavor sake I like the way this idea looks.)
Idea 3:
One Kukri, One Katana. With Ancestral Arms this becomes a nice option. Bumping up my potential damage by four. However It requires giving up skill focus, and a talent to Rogue's Finesse (Which is factored into my current build). And as a sidenote for flavor I personally think it looks funny.
Idea 4:
Dual Sawtooth Sabres. This is seen as superior to Kukris until very high levels. But this requires Ancestral Arms so it would be full commitment to unlike a Kukri.
So people of the forums help me build a silent butcher please :) (And thank you!!!)
Dual Wakizashis. Go strength>Dex and use the first slayer talent to pick up TWF, or if your point-buy is high enough, get enough dex to allow TWF at first level and get dual slice at 2nd.
Doubled bladed sword. This is one of the best weapons that you can get for a strength based TWF build (most double weapons can be used as a substitute though)
Double weapons give you the option to use them either as a onehanded/light combo, or as a 2 handed weapon. That means that when you only make 1 attack (standard action after a move, charges, etc), you can get 1.5x strength and power attack damage.
As such, you can get decent damage no matter the situation. You avoid the typical problem of TWF builds (what to do when you can't full attack?)
^ Also a good option. I always forget about the dual-bladed sword.
Basically, though, you want to make sure Weapon Focus (whatever) applies to both your attacks.
Honestly shortswords are good enough, and they have an advantage in that they're cheap and easily found. I've seen a strength-based ranger with TWF feats from the class bonus feats absolutely destroy encounters with two shortswords.
And slayers tend to have their bonuses apply to more situations (since it is not just specific enemy types), and by level 7 you can spam it on anything you are hitting at the time.
You are getting enough extra on each hit that you should be fine with short swords.
And slayers tend to have their bonuses apply to more situations (since it is not just specific enemy types), and by level 7 you can spam it on anything you are hitting at the time.
You are getting enough extra on each hit that you should be fine with short swords.
I really like those Ideas. And I think Ill go with those. and It allows me for me to get the Headsman Blade or whatever that specific weapon is. Any recommendations as far as feats and talents go?
I kinda want to do the whole Feint thing still. So Improved Feint, and Greater Feint. Powerful and Deadly Sneak. Assassinate. And I am not really sure what else to do.
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Daggers are good. You can get +1 damage with them via a trait, making them hit as hard as shortswords, if you worship Pharasma you can get a +2 sacred bonus to hit with them cancelling the TWF penalty, they are easily concealable, and they can be thrown. If you take a dip of knife master rogue, your SAs will do d8s with them too.
Otherwise, double weapons are good, as is a one-handed weapon and a cestus. The one-hand+cestus has all the benefits of a double weapon (two-hand when you can't full attack, TWF when you can) without needing the EWP.
Daggers are good. You can get +1 damage with them via a trait, making them hit as hard as shortswords, if you worship Pharasma you can get a +2 sacred bonus to hit with them cancelling the TWF penalty, they are easily concealable, and they can be thrown. If you take a dip of knife master rogue, your SAs will do d8s with them too.
Otherwise, double weapons are good, as is a one-handed weapon and a cestus. The one-hand+cestus has all the benefits of a double weapon (two-hand when you can't full attack, TWF when you can) without needing the EWP.
The only thing is that I can't take knife master. Knife is a rogue class. Hybrid class rules make that not so legal.
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The only thing is that I can't take knife master. Knife is a rogue class. Hybrid class rules make that not so legal.Daggers are good. You can get +1 damage with them via a trait, making them hit as hard as shortswords, if you worship Pharasma you can get a +2 sacred bonus to hit with them cancelling the TWF penalty, they are easily concealable, and they can be thrown. If you take a dip of knife master rogue, your SAs will do d8s with them too.
Otherwise, double weapons are good, as is a one-handed weapon and a cestus. The one-hand+cestus has all the benefits of a double weapon (two-hand when you can't full attack, TWF when you can) without needing the EWP.
You can freely multiclass rogue with slayer. The Hybrid class restriction that was in the playtest was dropped in the release.
OOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHH I did not know this.
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Do not choose Powerful or Deadly sneak, unless your GM houserules them to work differently. They are less than worthless -- they actually reduce your average damage per round, considering the penalty to attack, and the pidling amount of additional damage they do, especially with the Slayer's reduced sneak attack progression compared to a rogue.
Consider: at level 9, a Slayer does 3d6 sneak attack damage. Powerful sneak has a 1/216 chance of adding 3 damage, a 1/36 chance of adding 2 damage, and a 1/6 chance of adding 1 damage. Does that sound like it's worth a -2 to attack? Clearly not. That's an average of 0.23 points of damage per successful sneak attack. At the same level, a -3 to attack with power attack or piranha strike gets you a +6 to damage. Go with that instead, since a slayer has the BAB and bonuses to make up for the attack penalty.
Since you apparently want to be sneaky and feinty, and want to be a half-elf, the skill-focus feat could be in Stealth or Bluff (probably Bluff, as Charisma is generally a dump stat for slayers, and you still need at least 13 Int for the Feint feats). Too bad the feint feats aren't part of the ranger combat styles, except for special deity-specific ones in Inner Sea Combat (which I think may be associated with evil deities).
Even you aren't going with the weapon proficiency, half elves are great for slayers. This is because they can perfectly patch up your bad will save.
Half elves have an alt trait that trades out skilled, and it is called dual minded. It just gives you a straight +2 to will saves (for most purposes other than skills, that is like giving you a +4 to wisdom). Also, they still have elven immunity, which gives a +2 to saves vs enchantments (which are some of the most threatening for your group, since we are trying to make you into a melee beast, and a charm/dominate could make you a major problem).
Depending on your point buy you can easily just be strength based and not need to worry about trying crazy dex based shenanigans. Personally, I actually found this to be the strongest build.
I would go with STR: 16 DEX: 15 CON: 14 INT: 12 WIS: 10 CHA: 7 if you have a 20 point buy and use the racial ability bonus to raise strength to 18. 15 dex is enough to get you all the early TWF feats you want, and a belt or ioun can raise it up to 17 to get you everything else you want. The only "important" feat you can't get is Greater Two Weapon Fighting, which is honestly a trap. An extra attack at a -10 for a feat just isn't very good. Instead focus on ways of getting sneak attack. One of my favorite was is to use Improved Two Weapon Feint, though there are a myriad of ways.
In general whatever weapons you wield, wield two of them. Because any weapon specific feats you might pick up like Improved Critical or Weapon Focus will work with both. Because you are a half elf, Sawtooth Sabres aren't bad. But honestly, the difference between a sawtooth sabre and a kukri is a d8 vs a d4 and 19-20x2 vs 18-20x2. Early on sawtooth sabres will have a slight advantage. 4.5 average damage vs 2.5. However, weapon damage dice will quickly become a smaller part of your overall damage and the improved critical range (combined with improved critical) of the kukri will make up for that small difference.
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If you really want to use some exotic weapons, consider picking up a Wayfinder and a Cracked Opalescent White Pyramid Ioun stone. Makes the weapon a Martial weapon, and gives you weapon focus with it for the resonance bonus.
If you really want to do feinting, Fighting Fans give you +2 bonus on Bluff to distract for feinting
Sorry to ask but I heard from my VL that flawed and cracked Ion stones do not give resonance bonus. Is that true, or just true in PFS or wrong?
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With a slayer you can use the Ranger styles to grab the 2WF feats without meeting the very high Dexterity requirements. This leaves you free to make Strength your primary stat instead.
This is in fact what the Pregen Slayer (Zadim) does, with kukris, and it works quite well. He's got a Strength of 20 at level 4 and he's got no problems hitting AC.
Good lord there is a lot to take in. So what I am gathering...
-Kukris are the go to at higher levels for pure two weapon fighting.
-Go for critical, sneaking, and feinting feats
-Or if I want to get other ways of hitting twice more per round go with a sided weapon like a double sword.
Also thoughts on the Stygian Slayer?
The Double sword is useful for being able to be used two-handed in circumstances when you can't do a full attack. Its downside is that it's exotic and uses a feat.
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The Double sword is useful for being able to be used two-handed in circumstances when you can't do a full attack. Its downside is that it's exotic and uses a feat.
The Urgosh, Double Axe, and Hook Hammer are all decent double weapons that are not exotic if you are the right race.
And for that matter, a quarterstaff isn't as bad as it looks. Oils of Shillelagh are a thing, and non-fighter specialization is possible.
The Double sword is useful for being able to be used two-handed in circumstances when you can't do a full attack. Its downside is that it's exotic and uses a feat.
One way of getting a double weapon is to get it through race. Half-orcs and dwarves tend to be favorable for this, especially since they have save increasing options.
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Dual Wield Kukris and build Str. Use ranger styles to pick up TWF without pre-reqs.
Share feats like Improved Critical and weapon focus.
Weapon Damage dice means little more than 1-2 points of damage.
If you have someone wielding a x4 critical weapon in the Group invest in Butterfly sting. If not then critical feats might be your go to towards the end game levels.
As for Enchantments I personally like to examine the campaign to figure those out. If your playing something Like Rise of the runelords you might be safe Getting a +1 giant bane Kukris since you're fighting giants a good portion of the campaign book 4+. Perhaps you face a lot of demons? +1 Outsider bane/+1 holy weapons would do you well. Or you can go for some kind of gimmick blades like +1 Axiomatic/+1 Holy and call them Law and Order or something like that. or +1 Shocking Burst/+1 Thundering named Thunder and Lightning. SOme people like gimmick weapons.
Dual Wield Kukris and build Str. Use ranger styles to pick up TWF without pre-reqs.
Share feats like Improved Critical and weapon focus.
Weapon Damage dice means little more than 1-2 points of damage.
If you have someone wielding a x4 critical weapon in the Group invest in Butterfly sting. If not then critical feats might be your go to towards the end game levels.
As for Enchantments I personally like to examine the campaign to figure those out. If your playing something Like Rise of the runelords you might be safe Getting a +1 giant bane Kukris since you're fighting giants a good portion of the campaign book 4+. Perhaps you face a lot of demons? +1 Outsider bane/+1 holy weapons would do you well. Or you can go for some kind of gimmick blades like +1 Axiomatic/+1 Holy and call them Law and Order or something like that. or +1 Shocking Burst/+1 Thundering named Thunder and Lightning. SOme people like gimmick weapons.
Yes I love me some gimmicky weapons. :)