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I like the charter! And I approve of the addendum to vote in a new ringmaster....lots of intrigue there..lol
Still look to make a knife thrower (Rogue knife thrower), but as we are to be outcasts and such, would it be too extreme to make a character race with 4 arms?? or do you want to stay with the more 'normal' races?
Considering the nature of the campaign, all of the Paizo races (core, featured, uncommon) will definitely be available. To make sure that the regular races still get some love though, I did want to implement some sort of 'mutant' feat/trait.
My first thought was to allow a feat that gives 4 extra race points to spend or a trait that gives 2, based on the fact that it cost 4 race points to purchase an extra feat. However, even just 2 extra race points allows for some pretty strong abilities to be gained off of just a trait. My thought then was to make the trait and/or feat come with a drawback, like, for example, having players a drawback like the ones from the Ogrekin template.
2: Fragile: The ogrekin is particularly frail and gaunt. It loses its +4 racial bonus to Con.
3: Light Sensitive: The ogrekin gains light sensitivity.
4: Obese: The ogrekin takes a –2 penalty to Dexterity (minimum score of 1).
5: Stunted Legs: The ogrekin’s base speed is reduced by 10 feet (minimum base speed of 5 feet).
6: Weak Mind: The ogrekin’s head is huge and misshapen. It gains a –2 penalty on Will saving throws.
Then again, I might just let players interested in such things straight up design a custom race (probably somewhere in the range of 10-15 race points).
You know what comes next folks, FEED ME KITTY BISCUITS AND FEEDBACK!
There are two ways I've always dealt with high-RP races, which aren't mutually exclusive.
1. Characters take a -1 level penalty for a race in the 16-30 RP range (or 16-25, or 11-20), with a larger penalty for going over that. This also can let some players take other options, if the GM's into them—for instance, treating a template like "lycanthrope" as a level adjustment.
2. Banning extra race points, but allowing characters to "buy off" extra race features down to an acceptable RP. This keeps people from cherry-picking to get the best races possible, while also allowing "lesser" versions of weirder races.
-Always wanted to be a Syrinx (bird person) but that 16 RP cost was just too high for most GMs? Take away the racial bonus to saves vs. mind-effecting, and you're fine.
-What about Ghorans (self-resurrecting plant people)? Take away the Ghorus Seed ability and you drop from 19 to 13 RP, and suddenly you're a much more party-appropriate plant person.
1+2: Do you want to have multiple arms? Kasathas (20 RP) get that ability, but to keep it from being over the top, suddenly you're choosing between staying a level behind everyone or losing almost every race feature except your extra arms.
Edit:
Or
3. Players choosing a "normal" race (Core/below 10 RP) get an extra "boon" based on the training they receive as a non-outsider, instead of bonus RP. I've seen this sort of thing used in games before, and it might either be a single boon granted to everyone or the ability to choose from a list.
Examples of minor boons:
A. Choose an additional trait; this may be from the same category as another trait you have.
B. Gain 2 extra skill points per level. These may only be spent on Perform, Craft, or Profession.
C. Gain "Skill Focus" as a bonus feat—the skill you chose is automatically considered a class skill.
D. Choose one: Perform, Craft, Knowledge, or Profession. Treat all versions of that skill as a class skill.
E. Gain proficiency with one martial weapon, or with shields.
F. Gain a +2 "circus" bonus to Bluff, Sleight of Hand, Acrobatics and Perform checks.
P.S. For players:
I'd strongly consider people to look at things other than rogues, since it seems like most of the characters proposed fall into that category. An oracle/witch/cleric with the right spells can make an excellent party fortune teller. An investigator with a love for pyrotechnics makes just as good an acrobat when the curtain rises as anyone else, and nobody can pick pockets or rig a game of 3-card-Monte quite as well as the right eidolon/familiar while his charisma-heavy master works a crowd.
Okay, I have few questions:
1) Point-buy or roll for stats?
2) 3pp allowed or not?
3) Starting level and wealth?
4) What about gods and assorted divinities?
Sorry, we haven't got there yet. Still trying to figure out the setting and what the characters are doing there.
Sorry, we haven't got there yet. Still trying to figure out the setting and what the characters are doing there.Okay, I have few questions:
1) Point-buy or roll for stats?
2) 3pp allowed or not?
3) Starting level and wealth?
4) What about gods and assorted divinities?
However, I will share what thoughts I have so far:
1) I'm a point buy fan, but rolling does go with the "old-school feel" of these adventures, so I'm on the fence but leaning towards point buy.2) No comment yet.
3) Probably level 1 with either standard or slightly reduced wealth taking into consideration the caravan and extra supplies you'll have access to.
4) This is the one element that is set in stone, once I get a neat list typed up I'll get you some more info on the Lost Lands gods.
F. Gain a +2 "circus" bonus to Bluff, Sleight of Hand, Acrobatics and Perform checks.
I think that should be the campaign trait that everyone gets. It seems reasonable that all the Circus folk would have some practice with these skills (especially a perform skill at least).
I'm a point buy fan, but rolling does go with the "old-school feel" of these adventures, so I'm on the fence but leaning towards point buy.
I'm also all for point buy (I usually use a non-standard point buy of 20 points and do point for point, but will use the standard chart for more a traditional game if that's what we are doing), but if you like the old-school feel of rolling dice (and I also like the organic feel to it sometimes) and want to do it, I suggest that before characters are made that the posting dice roller be used for the rolls.
Don't actually use the final result but pick 3 individual die rolls (in the case of rolling 4d6 and ditching one die): 6 + 6 + 4 = 16 (or 17 - 1). Do this for all six attributes and match up the numbers where you want.
I also suggest using the die roller and before posting use the preview button to see what the rolls came up as and post your final number, like so: - 2 = 12
I'm leaning strongly towards a strong-man concept for this, now. I've pretty much never played a high strength character, always favoring the skilled options. So... it'll be a break from the norm for me.
I don't really have any preference for the locale.
For a character concept, I'm thinking a "Snake Charmer" or "Snake Man" character (Maybe using a Sorcerer with Serpentine Bloodline or a Druid with serpent Shaman Archetype (with serpent domain) and maybe using a Nagaji as the race (more likely for the sorcerer)).
Unfortunately for Num-Rah, due to the gritty old-schoolish feel of the Lost Lands line, if we do go point buy it likely wouldn't go above 20.
I do have to wonder, how would one due a freak show? My first thought is a Treesinger Druid with his plantimals.
One good way to preserve "dice roll feel" without the innate unfairness of dice rolls (some characters coming out way better) is to have the GM roll 4d6 for everyone before character creation begins.
Example:
-> 16
-> 12
-> 16
-> 8
-> 12
-> 16
Then each character would have to use the array 16, 16, 16, 12, 12, 8, but can assign those how they choose. Or multiple rolled arrays could be given for all players to chose between.
- - - - -
Meanwhile, I'm really interested in the idea of a juggler with brawler training who acrobatically bounces around and throws things at targets. Thinking maybe Vanara and Shield Champion for the maximum circus effect of a monkey juggling big spiky shields.
Lot's of interesting ideas, but I still think 20 point buy will be the best and simplest.
As for the race issue, my current stance is that characters start at level 2 but may drop down to level 1 to gain access to a more powerful race (15+ race points) or a 1 CR template. For those still not satisfied, reasonably designed custom races will be allowed as well. Mundane races (the core races) will also get some minor bonus boon as well.
Lot's of interesting ideas, but I still think 20 point buy will be the best and simplest.
As for the race issue, my current stance is that characters start at level 2 but may drop down to level 1 to gain access to a more powerful race (15+ race points) or a 1 CR template. For those still not satisfied, reasonably designed custom races will be allowed as well. Mundane races (the core races) will also get some minor bonus boon as well.
Hm... I'm fine with starting at level 2... but lycanthropes also have a starting CR of 2 if they have a level 1 class... and natural ones get a DR 10/silver. Though I guess I'm fine with that with them on my team. Heck, makes for a good beast man in the Circus.
With that, are we officially starting the recruitment or are we still working things out (like specifics on why we are here (besides carny prejudice), where are we going, anything else on what characters are allowed and how the circus is structured). I'm just curious what else are we working on. I could do with a very structured campaign, but I don't know about everyone else. ;)
I've always made players use the Afflicted Lycanthrope template, because of the lower DR and inability to spread the disease with a bite.
Yep, all player lycanthropes are required to be afflicted. However, as per the super secret Lost Lands Lycanthrope houserule that only cool cats know about (SSLLLHTOCCKA for short) during the night of a full moon even afflicted lycanthropes can transmit the curse.
Edit: To answer Arcanic Drake's question:
Right now (thanks in large part sue to contributions from viewers like you!) I'm just ironing out some final kinks so that I can start working on a consolidated official list of recruitment information. On the to do list are determining the initial statistics/contents of the caravan (so that I can more accurately gage starting wealth) and campaign traits. For the campaign traits I was thinking various bonuses to skills involved in the caravan "minigame."
I'm thinking instead of a Stalker (lots of rogue types so far) maybe doing an Aasimar Warlord who's goal is to be Ringmaster.
For the campaign traits I was thinking various bonuses to skills involved in the caravan "minigame."
As a suggestion, as this is a Circus, everyone gets at least one perform skill as a class skill and gets a +2 bonus to it.
Possible option for getting players the skills they need:
Choose two skills from the Caravan Skills List. You gain a +1 trait bonus to each of these skills and they are considered class skills. In addition, you gain one bonus skill point per level which must be spent on skills from the Caravan Skills List.
Possible option for getting players the skills they need:
Choose two skills from the Caravan Skills List. You gain a +1 trait bonus to each of these skills and they are considered class skills. In addition, you gain one bonus skill point per level which must be spent on skills from the Caravan Skills List.
** spoiler omitted **Note: these skills include only skills which are explicitly required to work the various caravan jobs. I might possibly expand the list to include more circus-y skills such as Acrobatics, Climb, Disguise, Escape Artist, Ride, and Sleight of Hand.
Sounds perfectly reasonable.
*Offers more Kitty nibbles* (^_^)
How does the 'level spreading' idea work for the possible DM?
I am thinking of more than one template for Xane... (>_>)
Still not sure I completely understand - is your proposed penalty for the templates that you receive only npc class levels while taking the template? I must admit that I'm not a huge fan of the whole "oh look I leveled up and now I'm suddenly large" idea, would it be possible for you to make a custom Large-sized human race (less than 15 rp) and then tack the other template you wanted to that?
I will get to work on Cyrus McSweet. Snake Oil salesman, and owner of the oddities wagon. He will be a bard with probably the archaeologist, or Magician template. I'll have to get to work on him to know for sure. What are the chances of having a wagon and tent for my oddities show?
I suppose now is the time to unveil a bit about the caravan.
The default starting caravan includes 3 wagons: 1 covered wagon, 1 supply wagon, and 1 fortune-telling wagon. We'll be sticking with a three wagon train to start off (the circus may have had more previously, but those were lost/stolen during the journey out of the empire) but the fortune-telling wagon will be replaced with the mobile stage (from Trade Routes: Expanded Caravan Rules Sourcebook). Funnily enough, Trade Routes does include statistics specifically for a snake-oil salesman wagon, but that will have to be purchased later. A tent is of course perfectly do-able right off the bat.
Covered Wagon
Cost - 500 gp
hp - 20
Traveler Capacity - 6
Cargo Capacity - 4
Consumption - 2
Supply Wagon
Cost - 300 gp
hp - 20
Traveler Capacity - 2
Cargo Capacity - 10
Consumption - 1
Mobile Stage
Cost - 1000 gp
hp - 20
Traveler Capacity - 4
Cargo Capacity - 1
Consumption - 2
Benefit - Once per game month (might be changed to week) per settlement you visit, you can unfold the mobile stage and attract a crowd. The caravans entertainers make a Perform (any) check, receiving a +2 bonus for each caravan member filling the entertainer role during the performance. The result of the Perform check is the amount in gold pieces taken in by the caravan. You must remain at the settlement for at least one day to make this check.
Totals
Cost - 1800 gp + supplies
hp - 60
Traveler Capacity - 12
Cargo Capacity - 15
Consumption - 5 + # of travelers
You could also duplicate 3.5's Powerful Build with a few appropriate abilities making you ALMOST large size. Centaurs have an ability that makes them use weapons one size smaller—just reverse that, and take as traits the ones that treat you as effectively one size category larger for maneuvers (Big-Boned) and maybe one to boost intimidate.
So first go around with Cyrus, just to start putting things in order.
Cyrus McSweet Bard1/Alchemist1
Cyrus McSweet
Male human (varisian) alchemist (spellchymist) 1/bard 1 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide 26)
CG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +2; Senses Perception +5
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Defense
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AC 13, touch 13, flat-footed 10 (+2 Dex, +1 dodge)
hp 14 (2d8)
Fort +2, Ref +6, Will +3
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Ranged bomb +3 (1d6+2 Fire)
Special Attacks bardic performance 7 rounds/day (countersong, distraction, fascinate [DC 13], inspire courage +1), bomb 3/day (1d6+2 fire, DC 12)
Bard Spells Known (CL 1st; concentration +4)
. . 1st (2/day)—charm person (DC 14), disguise self
. . 0 (at will)—ghost sound (DC 13), mage hand, mending, prestidigitation
Alchemist (Spellchymist) Extracts Prepared (CL 1st; concentration +3)
. . 1st—cure light wounds, shield
. . 0 (at will)—detect magic, mage hand, purify food and drink (DC 12)
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Statistics
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Str 10, Dex 14, Con 10, Int 14, Wis 13, Cha 17
Base Atk +0; CMB +0; CMD 13
Feats Brew Potion, Deceitful, Dodge, Throw Anything
Skills Acrobatics +6, Appraise +7, Bluff +9, Disguise +9, Escape Artist +6, Knowledge (geography) +7, Knowledge (history) +7, Knowledge (local) +8, Perception +5, Perform (act) +7, Perform (oratory) +7, Sleight of Hand +6, Stealth +6
Languages Celestial, Common, Sylvan, Varisian
SQ alchemy (alchemy crafting +1), bardic knowledge +1, discovery (enhance potion), everlasting infusions, spell vials
Other Gear 150 gp
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Special Abilities
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Alchemy +1 (Su) +1 to Craft (Alchemy) to create alchemical items, can Id potions by touch.
Bardic Knowledge +1 (Ex) Add +1 to all knowledge skill checks.
Bardic Performance (standard action, 7 rounds/day) Your performances can create magical effects.
Bomb 1d6+2 (3/day, DC 12) (Su) Thrown Splash Weapon deals 1d6+2 fire damage.
Enhance Potion (2/day) A number of times per day equal to his Intelligence modifier, the alchemist can cause any potion he drinks to function at a caster level equal to his class level.
Everlasting Infusions You learn how to create a number of infusions that are not expended when used.
Spell Vials You always create infusions and can throw the vials making a ranged touch attack +INT.
Throw Anything Proficient with improvised ranged weapons. +1 to hit with thrown splash weapons.
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Scranford: If you're considering a bombslinging alchemist, you might want to look at the Juggler archetype for your bard levels.
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so I think I am going to stay human instead of burdening the Dm and myself with extra rules and such...still looking at a thrower, but maybe axes instead, going a fighter route...still fiddling around with stuff..lol
For use who take 'normal' races, do we get any bonus'? Not too sure what the rules of character creation are...as I know we had some great ideas for additions and such.
So first go around with Cyrus, just to start putting things in order.
Cyrus McSweet Bard1/Alchemist1
** spoiler omitted **...
I like your character, though I don't know about the third party archetype for the Alchemist. I don't know what Steve is allowing. I vote for you to keep it though!
At low levels, humans become extra attractive because that extra skill and feat matter more. I'm still tossing around race ideas, but I'll wait until recruitment starts to actually build anything. Also—we may wind up with a large number of throwing characters proposed! Although I guess if built properly they'll just be melee character-equivalent with extra flair.
I'm leaning heavily towards a human bloodrager myself. What bloodline is still mutable, though. Arcane, Aberrant, and Destined each seem neat.
I'm leaning heavily towards a human bloodrager myself. What bloodline is still mutable, though. Arcane, Aberrant, and Destined each seem neat.
What type of character concept are you going for?
Huh... no matter how hard I try, I can't seem to justify building a character as anything other than a half-orc or a human. But I'll see what other people propose. I'm definitely thinking dex-focused dual-shield wielder, but I guess the character can transition from melee feats to ranged ones with brawler's feat-retraining ability at level 5. It could be cool to play a character who's specifically taken a vow to never use weapons because of some past carnival accident.
Does Sword of Air have any campaign-specific races feats interesting enough to warrant a note?
I'm leaning heavily towards a human bloodrager myself. What bloodline is still mutable, though. Arcane, Aberrant, and Destined each seem neat.What type of character concept are you going for?
Still the strong-man concept. Bloodrage gives a huge boost to strength, and human let's him make it look easy. :)
Do you know yet if you are going to allow Psionics? If not, then I will stick with an Elf Treesinger Druid.
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Ok so I am looking at a Wayang Shadowcaster character. I will spoiler his crunch below for you to examine. Just a quick question: he has taken both magical linage and wayang spell hunter as traits. I chose magic missile at the moment as the spell they will affect, but was wondering if it is possible to change this as he grows in levels. It would allow me then to apply the ability to more appropriate spells once he get to the level to cast them (specifically I was looking at Shadow Evocation).
Thanks!
Veilwar
Male wayang wizard (shadowcaster) 2 (Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Magic, Pathfinder RPG Advanced Race Guide 210)
NG Small humanoid (wayang)
Init +2; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +4
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Defense
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AC 13, touch 13, flat-footed 11 (+2 Dex, +1 size)
hp 16 (2d6+6)
Fort +2, Ref +2, Will +3; +2 vs. shadow spells
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Offense
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Speed 20 ft.
Special Attacks binding darkness
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 2nd; concentration +3)
. . 1/day—ghost sound (DC 11), pass without trace, ventriloquism (DC 12)
Wizard (Shadowcaster) Spells Prepared (CL 2nd; concentration +5)
. . 1st—color spray (DC 14), color spray (DC 14), mage armor, magic missile, shadow weapon[UM] (DC 15)
. . 0 (at will)—dancing lights, detect magic, ghost sound (DC 13), prestidigitation
. . Opposition Schools Necromancy, Transmutation
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Statistics
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Str 12, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 17, Wis 10, Cha 12
Base Atk +1; CMB +1; CMD 13
Feats Maximize Spell, Scribe Scroll
Traits magical lineage, wayang spell hunter
Skills Acrobatics +2 (-2 to jump), Appraise +8, Knowledge (arcana) +8, Linguistics +7, Perception +4, Spellcraft +8, Stealth +9; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception, +2 Stealth
Languages Abyssal, Common, Draconic, Goblin, Infernal, Shadowtongue, Wayang
SQ extended illusions (1 round), light and dark, shadow magic, shadow spell slot (shadow spell slot), shadow spells
Other Gear 150 gp
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Special Abilities
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Binding Darkness (1 rds, 6/day) (Sp) Ranged Touch attack entangles target and grants them concealment.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Extended Illusions (+1 rds) (Su) Increase duration of illusion spells by 1/2 level (permanent at 20).
Light and Dark (1/day) (Su) As an imm action, treat positive/negative energy as if undead for 1 min.
Magical Lineage (Magic Missile) A chosen spell counts as 1 level lower when metamagic feats are applied to it.
Maximize Spell All variable effects of a spell are maximized. +3 Levels.
Necromancy You must spend 2 slots to cast spells from the Necromancy school.
Shadow Associated School: Illusion
Shadow Magic (Ex) Wayangs add +1 to the DC of any saving throws against spells of the shadow subschool that they cast.
Shadow Resistance +2 on saves vs shadow spells.
Shadow Spells (Su) At 1st level, a shadowcaster uses his shadow to prepare additional spells. He must spend his entire period of spell preparation in dim illumination to use this ability. He may prepare a number of additional spell levels of spells equal to the level o
Transmutation You must spend 2 slots to cast spells from the Transmutation school.
Wayang Spell Hunter (Magic Missile) Reduce spell level increase from metamagic for chosen spell by 1.
Quick update, I've worked out all the character creation details for the most part so I'll throw up something official looking as soon as I get all the backstory banged out. I've decided to allow 3rd party material as long as its somewhere on the PFSRD for me to look at and I reserve the right to veto any material which I find questionable. Traits-wise, I've decided that core races get either 2 traits or 3 plus a drawback and everyone else gets either 1 trait or 2 plus a drawback.
@scranford: You have Varisian listed as your race and in your languages, however, this game does not take place on Golarion.
@thunderbeard: There are no campaign specific feats, although there might be a secret prestige class and some higher level spells hiding out somewhere.
@Daniel Stewart: I will allow the switching of spells, but I'm requiring that each trait be retrained seperately as a feat (takes 5 days, costs (10 gp) x (# of days) x (character level), requires a trainer).
I love the idea of a sophisticated Blue pretending to be some savage freak just to put on a show.
Thanks. Is there a race that would equate to the Varisians or Gypsies?
There would probably be an ethnic group of humans, or one of the other core races if that suits your fancy, that would be a Varisian/gypsy equivalent. I give you free reign to detail/name this group however you want or even just transplant the Varisians straight from Golarion into the Empire.
The same goes or everyone else: because this campaign will take place entirely outside of the Empire's reach, you're all free to invent whatever organizations, ethnic groups, locations, etc to fit in with you backstory. The one exception to this is the pantheon; I'll have a list of deities up soon.
I've decided to allow 3rd party material as long as its somewhere on the PFSRD for me to look at and I reserve the right to veto any material which I find questionable.
Hoooo boy. I'd be really careful about this—3pp means serious power creep, as well as players proposing some very incongruous things. If you do that, I'd recommend having a list of things you allow/disallow (for instance, Dreamscarred's Psionic stuff is pretty well-liked, but some of Tripod's base classes give even more bonus feats than a fighter, leading to everyone taking a dip in Gladiator and Martial Artist). I'd also strongly suggest banning all 3pp feats without special GM approval, since feats like Web of Steel and Agile Defense leave any players without them sitting ducks.
To put what thunderbeard said into perspective: Web of Steel is reasonably accessible at level 4 to those that would desire it. At level 4, a person in chain shirt would have the same armor bonus and a much higher max dex and lower acp than a person in full plate. In fact, for the cost of full plate, you could basically have +1 mithral chain shirt and just -laugh- at the full plate guy's choices. And every even level, it gets better. Meanwhile, agile defense is another -scaling- ac bonus, that would kick in at around level 4 as well and just put other equivalent feats to shame. For five feats, the guy in +1 mithral chain shirt is 2 ac ahead of the guy in full plate, and will gain 3 ac every 4 levels, assuming a full BAB class. Ew.
Really, though. Some 3pp is cool. Other 3pp is 'spend one feat for quick draw, two weapon fighting, and immunity to aoo from using ranged attacks in melee in a round in which you draw a gun.'
Hmmm. Good points from the two of you. In that case I am revising my 3rd party statement to require prior DM approval for anything 3rd party (feats are banned). 1/2 level dips in 3rd party material will be banned as well. As per Nowhear's request Dreamscarred psionics (feats included) is in and scranford's Alchemist archetype will be allowed as well.
My rational in allowing 3rd party was not to give players access to more easily optimizable classes, but rather more to provide thematically appropriate options that would allow you to create the weird character you think would fit in the campaign. I'll trust all of you not to abuse this privilege.