So playing as a flying blade archetype swashbuckler and I have a few questions about specifically the Disrupting Counter (Ex) Deed. For those of you who don't know the Disrupting Counter Deed is listed below.
Disrupting Counter (Ex): At 3rd level, when an opponent makes a melee attack against her, she can spend 1 panache point to make an attack of opportunity against the attacking foe. This attack of opportunity can be made with either a dagger or a starknife. If the attack hits, the opponent takes a –4 penalty on all attack rolls until the end of its turn. This deed replaces kip-up.
Firstly do I have to declare this before a roll is made like the restriction of Opportune Parry and Riposte (Ex), or can I wait till I am told the hit value before declaring I want to use this. Secondly does this mean I literally hit the opponent and do damage? Or do I just roll an attack roll to see if the opponent gets a -4 to hit. Thirdly why does this not replace Parry and Riposte when it is so very similar, but have differently worded mechanics, instead it replaces Kip-up a good utility. Fourthly does this mean with combat reflexes one can attack back with every hit. Lastly if I have the panache and AoO for it can I use Opportune Parry and Riposte followed by Disrupting Counter if the first one fails?
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The ability says "when an opponent makes a melee attack". It does NOT say "makes a successful melee attack" nor does it say "hits her" or in any other way indicates that the result of the attack is known. It simply says (paraphrased) "when you are attacked". So yeah, you make the decision to attempt a disrupting counter once you know of the intended attack, not after you know the result of the attack.
Yes, you do damage. The ability says "If the attack hits, the opponent takes a -4 penalty...". So, normally, you make an AoO which means you attack the enemy that provoked the AoO and if your AoO hits, you do your damage to that enemy. This ability doesn't say you replace the damage with the attack penalty. It simply says "if the [AoO] hits..." which normally means it does damage - with no rule to say this ability does NOT do damage, the default rule is assumed.
So, to put it all together: The GM tells you some enemy is attacking you. You decide to use Disrupting Counter (the GM may or may not have rolled the enemy's attack; it doesn't matter - what matters is you probably* don't yet know the result). If your AoO hits, you roll your normal damage for your attack and the GM applies the -4 penalty to your enemy's attack rolls for this round.
*I said "probably" because it really doesn't matter. If your GM is overly eager and he says "The enemy attacks you, rolls a 23 to hit, and here is your damage", you should still be allowed to say "Wait, I want to use Disrupting Counter". And, if your GM says "The enemy attacks you but I haven't rolled it yet" you should be allowed to say "Good, because I want to use Disrupting Counter" - either way, you can use it.
I have no idea why it replaces Kip Up.
With Combat Reflexes, you can make one AoO against each attack aimed at you. No more than one per attack (you never get more than one AoO per provoking event). You can decide if you want to parry/riposte or use disrupting counter, but there is no general way to use them both against one provoking attack.
Thank you for the well thought out and informative reply.
I agree with DM_Blake's ruling here. I can't help but feel that the ability is intended to not deal damage, but as written I'd say it does.
Also, I'm fairly sure that this AoO has to be with a melee attack, unless you have something that lets you take AoOs with ranged weapons. This affects your attack bonus if you don't have Weapon Finesse and means you can't use it against foes with superior reach.
I have another question. What if your opponent has reach and is not in a square next to you? Can you throw a dagger/starknife as an attack of opportunity?
Generally, no (unless you have some other ability that says differently) because you don't threaten them.
I have another question. What if your opponent has reach and is not in a square next to you? Can you throw a dagger/starknife as an attack of opportunity?Generally, no (unless you have some other ability that says differently) because you don't threaten them.
Threat range doesn't matter in this case.
Disrupting Counter (Ex): At 3rd level, when an opponent makes a melee attack against her, she can spend 1 panache point to make an attack of opportunity against the attacking foe. This attack of opportunity can be made with either a dagger or a starknife. If the attack hits, the opponent takes a –4 penalty on all attack rolls until the end of its turn. This deed replaces kip-up.
Emphasis mine.
Specific trumps general.If(opponent.meleeAttack)
{
self.attackOfOpportunity;
panachePoints--;
}
All you need is a melee attack against you to attempt an AoO against your attacker, regardless of threat range.
I don't think so. You can't AoO something you can't reach, unless you have something else that says you can.
Making an Attack of Opportunity: An attack of opportunity is a single melee attack, and most characters can only make one per round.
Again, unless you have a special ability that says otherwise, no thrown daggers as AoOs.
You.. kinda do have something that says otherwise.
when an opponent makes a melee attack against her, she can spend 1 panache point to make an attack of opportunity against the attacking foe.
Right there.
Plain as day.
Feel free to homebrew another class ability if you dislike the concept of tossing daggers/starknives to interrupt attacks.
Or just ban/nerf the ability or something.
Require the player to take some sort of improved snapshot four feat chain or some other nonsense.
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You.. kinda do have something that says otherwise.
when an opponent makes a melee attack against her, she can spend 1 panache point to make an attack of opportunity against the attacking foe.
Right there.
Plain as day.
Not plain, not daylight, doesn't say what you think. But I totally comprehend that this will take a FAQ to convince you otherwise. So table variance.
Great, great, great ability. Overpowered perhaps.
You.. kinda do have something that says otherwise.
when an opponent makes a melee attack against her, she can spend 1 panache point to make an attack of opportunity against the attacking foe.
Right there.
Plain as day.
Feel free to homebrew another class ability if you dislike the concept of tossing daggers/starknives to interrupt attacks.Or just ban/nerf the ability or something.
Require the player to take some sort of improved snapshot four feat chain or some other nonsense.
What it doesn't say is "completely disregarding the all the other rules about making an attack of opportunity". And since it doesn't say that, you still need to make your AoO with a an attack that can actually be used as an AoO.
Or are you going along the line that, if you threaten with weapon A ("melee starknife" in this case) but not with weapon B ("thrown starknife"), you can still make your AoO with weapon B, because you're only required to threaten the opponent, with no requirement to use the weapon with which you're threatening. Because that line is....controversial and poorly supported.
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Spending 1 panache to get the ability of a Feat for 1 round is possible. but this take away the need of the ready action.
Strike back
You can strike at foes that attack you using their superior reach, by targeting their limbs or weapons as they come at you.
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +11.
Benefit: You can ready an action to make a melee attack against any foe that attacks you in melee, even if the foe is outside of your reach.
The swashbuckler is over powered as is and I dont know if this was how its suppose to work but its possible to make attacks against creatures outside your reach.
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Spending 1 panache to get the ability of a Feat for 1 round is possible. but this take away the need of the ready action.
Strike back
You can strike at foes that attack you using their superior reach, by targeting their limbs or weapons as they come at you.
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +11.
Benefit: You can ready an action to make a melee attack against any foe that attacks you in melee, even if the foe is outside of your reach.
The swashbuckler is over powered as is and I dont know if this was how its suppose to work but its possible to make attacks against creatures outside your reach.
The attacking opponent still needs to be within the Swashbuckler's threatened area for the Swashbuckler to even be able to take the AoO.