Just a curiosity really, what's the highest base score of a familiar not counting the mauler archetype.
Umm, I think Earth Elementals are pretty buff. Let me go look at Improved familiars again.
EDIT: Ah, the E-Eli is the second best. The best is the Impundulu.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/impundulu
At 18 strength.
Edit 2: Impundulu's lose all their crap when they are familiars. In that case the Earth Elemental is the strongest Familiar at 16 and Small Sized.
Umm, I think Earth Elementals are pretty buff. Let me go look at Improved familiars again.
EDIT: Ah, the E-Eli is the second best. The best is the Impundulu.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/impundulu
At 18 strength.
Edit 2: Impundulu's lose all their crap when they are familiars. In that case the Earth Elemental is the strongest Familiar at 16 and Small Sized.
They only beat out the caypup by one point eh?
and caypups are fun. I was looking at being a tracker halfling or human and thought taking a combat familiar might be enjoyable.. everyone goes wolf and not dog
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Plus earth elementals come with power attack and improved bullrush as feats
Oh, and apparently there are special familiar options from the familiar folio, and one of them has witches giving a special ability to their familiar in return for delaying their patron spells for 1 level. The relevant bit here is that a witch with the strength patron has a familiar that can swap its strength and intelligence score for int/day that lasts for 1/2 your witch level. So if there are any familiars with 17+ int...(I've already found that the faerie dragon matches earth elemental in that case)
Also, just a not- just found out that sorcerers and blood ragers can trade out their first level power for a familiar. And I remember that humanoid-shaped elementals gain simple weapon proficiency. Let them take on the medium sized battle form from mauler, throw some armor (0 ACP stuff since it lacks armor proficiency) and a nice spear, give it your full BAB and 1/2 a blood rager's HP (not as great as a barbarian with eldritch heritage, but still vaguely acceptable) and you suddenly have a half decent melee buddy. The +7 base natural armor plus the familiar scaling NA bonus helps keep it tanky enough that its HP isn't too much of a problem.
EDIT-ahah! found something for the strength patron witch thing above. The sage archetype for familiars makes the familiar's INT equal 5+level. So starting at around level 11 or so, it has the best strength (given the fact that the witch likely has more than +5 int mod at that point, and the stat switch lasts for 5 rounds or more, yeah, it is enough to last most fights in a day).
I was under the impression that since improved familiars do not gain speak with animals, they do not qualify for familiar archetypes, has anyone stated otherwise?
I was under the impression that since improved familiars do not gain speak with animals, they do not qualify for familiar archetypes, has anyone stated otherwise?
Damn, really...well, there goes Rocky. He could have been a contender (with brassknuckles).
I suppose I could understand why. The archetypes seem to be there to add a bit of use and flavor to the otherwise 'meh' animals. Improved familiars usually have enough of a shtick that they can serve a similar function without the boost.
Plus, I was basically making a cohort with all my silliness. Medium sized, intelligent, able to use all sorts of equipment...
Still, I am going to hope that they can.
Well, if they can't, let me go look up the familiar with the highest strength:
...In which case the best you can pull is 12 strength for a small sized Goat or Wallaby. Goats provide you a bonus on Survival while Wallabys provide you with a boost to Acrobatics.
EDIT: This might not be true. If the Mauler Archetype truly does boost a creatures size STRAIGHT to medium regardless as to it's normal size...then Diminutive or Tiny familiars could be better than the small ones in battleform.
How much strength does a creature get from increasing each step in size?
Welp, there are probably some tiny creatures with more than 4 Str, in which case they are better than the Goat.
Unless your bonus includes the Mauler's free +2 boost, in which case the number to beat for a tiny creature is 6.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Compsognathus starts at 8 strength and is tiny, so it goes up to 18 strength in total (but gets super clumsy), making it incredible, also getting +2 con to make its poison stronger (it's not great poison), but still gives a +4 to initiative.
Idea I've had was getting a Compsognathus, throw on a Hat of Greater Disguise, so now it gets Alter Self, turn it into a lizardfolk to give it another +2 to Str from the spell (not sure if it stacks with the size increase, if not whatever), but more importantly, giving it 3 natural attacks (claw/claw/bite), as well as poison for its jaw, and it already comes with Improved Initiative as a feat, so it's pretty damn nice. Alternatively if you don't want to burn 12k on an item, Evolved Familiar for claws would give it 3 natural attacks proper.
And the Homunculist (once I find out the rulings for it) could be even BETTER.
|
|
How much do you gain for going from Diminutive to Medium? A squirrel starts with STR 2, but it might gain more by going up another size category.
Net stat mods there would be +10 str, -6 dex, +2 con, so it doesn't gain nearly as much as you'd hope, most tiny creatures are going to be better calls here since that 2 strength goes up to 14 in total, but it's getting hella awkward at that size.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Foxes are tiny and have 9 Str.
A kobold Adept 2/Warrior 4 is a CR 3 threat riding around on a compsognathus with a Melee bite +9 (1d8+6 plus poison) while the kobold casts Bless (+1 to their attacks) before the melee and then attacks with his own Melee mwk longsword +7 (1d6+4). For feats the kobold took Evolved Familiar: improved damage (bite), Furious Focus (combat, shared with familiar) and Power Attack (combat, shared with familiar).
With Bless running that's 2 attacks every round:
Bite +10 (1d8+6)
Longsword +8 (1d6+4)
If both hit that's avg 18 HP. That means that he's dropping a 3rd level fighter if he survives to round 2. That's... not bad for a kobold. Let's hear it for the mean weenies!
King Crab has a little less STR at 7, but has two attacks with grab, constrict, and can stay out of water for a long time.
NICE! 2 attacks at +8 plus grab and constrict instead for the kobold. If the creature's +8 CMB can beat a 3rd level fighter's CMD you've still got him dead in 2 rounds but in round 2 he can't fight back. Brilliant!
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The homonculus.
It's strength is theoretically unlimited. All it takes is gold.
At 20th-level it could have the following:
439 total hit dice
+109 ability score increases (which could get you 117 Strength)
2,414 HP
Base Attack Bonus +439
Base Saving Throws 146 + modifications
Poison attack DC 229 (or sleep for 1 minute)
219 feats
Strong enough for you?
Any chance you want to put a gold total to that Raving?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
That's RiDORKulous! TM
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I remember that thread. It was beautiful!
@ShroudedInLight - 880000gp (it is in the thread he linked :) )
Dear god. Remind me to play around with this if I ever get to play a mythic game.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Dear god. Remind me to play around with this if I ever get to play a mythic game.
If I may, if you ever play a game that allows mythic AND third party, go for the war master class, take a mythic tier that grants a leadership pool, and the second path mythic feat to gain another leadership pool, then just increase leadership as hard as you can, you'll be in command of over 500,000 troops fairly quickly.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Sadly, you only get a boost from moving up from tiny to small, which is a little depressing. But a Homunculist with a Compsognathus form for their familiar still goes up to 14 (respectable), and with being able to add evos to it via both Evolved Familiar and the class itself (Evolved Evo netting it 2 sets of claws for arms and feet, class feature being used to get better evos), you can have a 5 natural attack monster even before you start piling on gold to turn it into a deity.
Sadly, you only get a boost from moving up from tiny to small, which is a little depressing. But a Homunculist with a Compsognathus form for their familiar still goes up to 14 (respectable), and with being able to add evos to it via both Evolved Familiar and the class itself (Evolved Evo netting it 2 sets of claws for arms and feet, class feature being used to get better evos), you can have a 5 natural attack monster even before you start piling on gold to turn it into a deity.
I am a bit confused. Was that cited reference due to the size changes from poly morph effects (since having alter self add +6 str when used by a halfling seems like a problem), or is that for monster creation in general.
I am mostly asking about this as a clarification for the mauler archetype. I was rather confused when it said that the +2 STR on the battle form "stacks with the normal Strength adjustments for increasing in size". Would a small familiar going medium get an extra +4 strength on top of that?
Oh, and Dustyboy, about the improved familiar issue: This line makes me think it might allow improved familiars, since normal animal based familiars would not usually find this relevant:
A mauler can't speak, even if it's a type of creature that normally could.
While ravens and such gain the ability to speak as familiars, they are not actually a type of creature that 'normally could' speak. Speech is usually an issue that comes up a lot more often with improved familiars. So there is at least room for argument.
It would be much more fun, if improved familiars, which almost everyone taking a familiar will go for anyway, could take the archetypes.
And while it's not a case of archetype interaction (improved familiars are not archetypes), it seems rather clear that one cannot replace what one does not have.
Therefore abandon the trade paradigm and embrace communism: From each according to their ability, to each according to their need.
Now if that homunculus happens to have the mauler archetype from Familiar Folio... :P
As for the mauler's size changing: the only rules that govern that are in the monster creation/advancement rules. There's a table you're supposed to use any time a creature changes sizes (unless more specific rules override the general table). The developers say to use the polymorph size change rules table instead, but they're wrong. Not only does that not make any sense, but going that route is not only unsupported by RAW, but also opens up a huge can of rules eating worms.