Oh wow, I had no idea that's what those knowledge skills would do. Yes, very curious, does training them have that effect right now?
Goblin Squad Member
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To the best of my knowledge, Knowledges should be contributing to better loot. Survival (animals - wolves), Local (humanoids - goblins, bandits, raiders, knights, cultists), Geography (giants - ogres), Planes (outsiders - hellhounds), and History (undead - skeletons and ghouls) are currently the only ones that have any creatures associated with them, with Local the big winner given our current wealth of humanoids. The other ones will start being useful once we get more creature types.
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Goblin Squad Member
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To the best of my knowledge, Knowledges should be contributing to better loot. Survival (animals - wolves), Local (humanoids - goblins, bandits, raiders, knights, cultists), Geography (giants - ogres), Planes (outsiders - hellhounds), and History (undead - skeletons and ghouls) are currently the only ones that have any creatures associated with them, with Local the big winner given our current wealth of humanoids. The other ones will start being useful once we get more creature types.
Really, this need to be stickied or shouted or something. You really want to rise it to level 6. After that you need to make a decicion because if you rise it to seven the drops seems to ... well drop from the lower levels but you can get goodies from the higher ones, T2 stuff and more valuables (this is still unconfirmed by Devs but I really got that impression from my late alpha play).
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Goblin Squad Member
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Here's something related, though...
Is there going to be a benefit if multiple Characters have the appropriate Knowledge Skill? Or is it sufficient to have a single Character with a very high Knowledge Skill?Each player can open a chest and get rewards based on his or her own participation in the encounters/escalation. We should probably go into more detail about the spoils system eventually. But, no, you cannot open a chest for someone else (you open that chest for you); high Knowledge helps improve your personal rewards.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yeah, I just found this which indicates the same:
The fixed system should instead divide up the drop chance for every item on the creature's loot table. Rather than succeeding on a 75% roll and getting a drop then splitting it into thirds, each of three party members would instead have an individual 25%* chance of getting the item, and if they're very lucky all three of them could get it. Things that have internal randomization (i.e., a chance to roll on a different table or produce a random number of coin) roll for each player and could come out differently if two players both got the same sub-table drop.
Right now, loot is only distributed on killing blow and split between the killer and his or her party members. The plan is to eventually award kill credit based on threat so multiple people not in a party can share a kill and they're not so vulnerable to kill stealers hitting something that's about to die.
* There's actually a 5% bonus per player past the first to encourage grouping, so a full group of six actually gets 25% more loot than they would solo. Additionally, the loot chance scales based on each individual player's applicable Knowledge skill (linearly up to 50% extra loot at 300 skill total).
Here's how I picture it just from a few days of hunting.
It feels like higher level mobs roll on a better loot table.
BUT, it feels like higher knowledge opens up better loot on each loot table.
So if X is the "BEST" thing a Goblin drops... then a higher level of local knowledge gets you more X and less garbage loot.
But a higher level mob will have a table where the "best" item on its table is better than the "best" item on a lower level mob.
But without a high knowledge skill, you are less likely to see the "best" items on either loot table.
That's just a guess from 4 days of hunting and hiking up knowledge in between hunting sessions. I'm sure the devs can give a better answer.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yeah, I just found this which indicates the same:
The fixed system should instead divide up the drop chance for every item on the creature's loot table. Rather than succeeding on a 75% roll and getting a drop then splitting it into thirds, each of three party members would instead have an individual 25%* chance of getting the item, and if they're very lucky all three of them could get it. Things that have internal randomization (i.e., a chance to roll on a different table or produce a random number of coin) roll for each player and could come out differently if two players both got the same sub-table drop.
Right now, loot is only distributed on killing blow and split between the killer and his or her party members. The plan is to eventually award kill credit based on threat so multiple people not in a party can share a kill and they're not so vulnerable to kill stealers hitting something that's about to die.
* There's actually a 5% bonus per player past the first to encourage grouping, so a full group of six actually gets 25% more loot than they would solo. Additionally, the loot chance scales based on each individual player's applicable Knowledge skill (linearly up to 50% extra loot at 300 skill total).
From the last para, is the group loot scale averaged or additive among members in the group that got the killing blow? Do we need to ensure everyone in a group has X levels of Y looting skill (assuming the looting skills are not making things worse of course). If it is additive, and you have 6 members, then there would be no point in spending skill points training past 50 (assuming you always fight in 6 person groups).
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Goblin Squad Member
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Cal, I pretty sure there is a slight i proval, although I know your test showed the opposite, what I think is that I observed at higher skill levels there was less loot from low level mobs (which I mentioned above) but better from high level mobs.
But we need a Dev to confirm that. I have complained over the red skeletons leaving little drop in general so I think there is something fishy about the drop tables in general. But I got T2 drop froma yellow Ogre today so perhaps it is the dice playing random games with us....
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Goblin Squad Member
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The way I interpret the relevant quotes is that each individual gets his own loot roll, and that each person's knowledge only affects his own roll.
So for example: Group of 6 kills a mob with a 30% drop rate. Each individual has a base of (30%/6 = 5%) * 1.25 = 6.25% of getting a drop. If Joe is in that party and has 300 in the relevant knowledge then he personally has a 6.25% * 1.5 = 9.375% chance of getting something.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Here is the formula BTW as Stephen describs it:
I don't know if it's in now. It'll be in whenever Paul's changes on Friday afternoon get in.The formula for the chance to drop any item on the loot table is:
([Base Chance]/[Group Size]) * (95% + [Group Size] x 5%) * (1 + [Relevant Skill Total]/600)
So if you have an item with a 60% drop chance, a group of 6, and everyone has maxed out skills, they'd each have a drop chance equal to:
(60%/6) * (95% + 30%) * (1 + 300/600)
10% * 125% * 150%
18.75%
Which is nearly twice as much loot, on average, than if one person with minimal skill had killed the thing. Each individual person only has a third the base drop chance, but overall the amount of loot given out went up dramatically.
We cap the chances at 100% for anything. So if you think something has a very high drop rate and your high knowledge skill is going to waste by pushing it over 100%, bring a friend.
(Very few things have a drop rate over 66% such that high skill will guarantee capping out the drop chance.)
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Goblin Squad Member
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The math you quoted from Stephen matches my math exactly: Divide the base drop chance by the party size, add 5% per party member after 1, and then modify the individual rolls by up to 50% for knowledge.
It is just easier for me to parse a true equation, presenting calculation in prose just makes my eyes glaze over ... :-)