Effectively the wizard is carrying everyone else, it is just the one teleport effect. So I would go with just one save for the wizard casting the teleport.
Effectively the wizard is carrying everyone else, it is just the one teleport effect. So I would go with just one save for the wizard casting the teleport.
I think this is right for teleport. The Teleport Trap says "A teleporting creature that is affected by a teleport trap can resist the effect with a Will save" while Teleport says "You may also bring one additional willing Medium or smaller creature (carrying gear or objects up to its maximum load) or its equivalent per three caster levels", suggesting it is the teleporter who makes the save, not each traveler.
Effectively the wizard is carrying everyone else, it is just the one teleport effect. So I would go with just one save for the wizard casting the teleport.I think this is right for teleport. The Teleport Trap says "A teleporting creature that is affected by a teleport trap can resist the effect with a Will save" while Teleport says "You may also bring one additional willing Medium or smaller creature (carrying gear or objects up to its maximum load) or its equivalent per three caster levels", suggesting it is the teleporter who makes the save, not each traveler.
Seven year necro aside...
Teleport trap doesn't talk about a caster of teleport (or even a once per teleport effect such as dragonhunterq suggested seven years ago). It targets a teleporting creature. Would you suggest if caster A casts teleport and includes B & C, that B & C, while creatures, are not teleporting creatures? I would very much disagree with that notion. While B & C did not initiate the teleport, they are still creatures that are teleporting. Each gets its own will save.
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A teleporting creature that is affected by a teleport trap can resist the effect with a Will save—if the save is successful, the creature simply doesn’t teleport at all (but the use of the teleport effect is still consumed)—either to the intended location or the teleport trap’s actual destination.
Besides the awkwardness of the phrase, it seems that the save is a separate event for each teleporting creature.
If used while playing that can be problematic, as some of the PCs will end in the trap area, and some will say at the starting point. Pathfinder doesn't work well with split parties unless you have multiple GMs.
as it's a trap that teleport whoever failed the save against it to one place while those who save are not teleported to their desired destination anyway. so unless everyone save or fail there would be some split up anyway.
it's up to the GM to deal with the split party as best as he can.
if he didn't want to deal with a chance of that happening he shouldn't put that specific trap to begin with.
this is a highly technical trap and should be used by people who understand what would lead to and desire the outcome that it brings.
we weren't saying that the teleport trap split the people it teleports. as in to different teleport destinations.
rather that the spell split the party between those who made the save and thus their own teleportation is negated and they stay where they were before trying to teleport and those that failed and are sent to where the trap is set as destination for them.
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Azothath was speaking of the flavor text at the end of the spell:
The Pathfinders of the Grand Lodge make use of permanent teleport traps in several key locations, trapping would-be intruders in a small wing of jail cells. At least one crypt of the Whispering Tyrant makes use of the spell as well, trapping grave robbers in coffin-sized stone cysts, there to die a slow and agonizing death from thirst and starvation.
It implies that each of the teleported guys and in a different cell or cyst, but the spell hasn't that function.
The cysts are "coffin-sized", so there is no space for another person in them and the spell has no way to select a different cyst after one is full. So we have the problem of what will happen to the extra guys. His suggestion is that it counts as teleporting to a False destination, as the cyst has been altered when compared to how it was the moment in which the spell was cast.
Everyone follows the caster as they willingly allowed the spell to affect them AND they are all touching.
Everyone is a willing participant of the teleport spell. Everyone is not a willing participant of the teleport trap (a different spell).
As Diego notes, the rules about trapping different individuals in different cells is certainly not the RAW of the teleport trap spell.
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again, Teleportation Trap is a high level spell with considerable GM's gray area.
I agree.
To bbangerter: my post wasn't about Azothath being or wrong, but about him noticing an inconsistency between the mechanics of the spell and the uses described in the lore written within the spell.
A lot of people would disregard it saying it is "fluff". But the "fluff" generally shows us how the creator thinks the spell should work.
If the spell has grey areas but the fluff shows how it is meant to work we should try to find a compromise that works.
Does the spell teleport five PCs into an enclosed area that can accept only a single medium-sized creature?
Yes.
Does that work with the existing rules?
No.
What rules we should consider for that or something similar to happen?
In this instance those about teleportation mishaps.
The question if each creature makes a separate save or all use the save of the original spellcaster is a separate thing.
Personally, I am more favorable to using separate saves, as very rarely Pathfinder has you use a different guy save as you first save without some very explicit, specific, rule.
The other guy save generally is a fallback option in the attempt to retry a save you originally failed, and there are specific rules about if and when you can do that.