Arcane Duelist Advice


Advice


All,

Our group is just starting the Iron Gods campaign, and I decided to mix it up a bit and play a bard. I used to love the old bard in AD&D 1.0...

The party makeup is an Aasimar Paladin, Elf Conjurer, Android Galvanic Saboteur (archer), and Aasimar Arcane Duelist. We are all 2nd level. I will be fighting up front with the paladin. My stats are Str 16, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 17. I know some people say duelist's should tank their charisma a bit more, but I'm also the face of the party, and I'm hoping I will actually get to use my diplomacy, bluff, and intimidate a bit.

Few things I'm struggling with.
1. Being up front my AC is important. Right now I'm using a shield. I'm wondering though if I should go with the Flagbearer feat (longspear), and just get the Shield spell on a Ring or Page of Spell Knowledge. I'm kind of leaning against that as I would need to burn a 2nd level spell and a standard action every time before I would wade into combat.

2. Feats:
* I took Toughness at first level to supplement my hit points as I'm using the Aasimar favored class bonus to ramp up inspire courage, instead of gaining a hit point every level.
* I'm considering Quick Draw or Power Attack for level 3. Since the party isn't really low on damage output right now, I'm leaning towards Quick Draw so I could go two handed on my longsword and then swap out my shield as a free action each round.
* At level 5 I would take Power Attack.
* At level 7 I would take Cornugon Smash. My intimidate should be fairly good, and I took the Aasimar Halo feature with provides me a +2 to intimidate evil creatures. I figured this would be a nice perk every time I hit something.

After that I'm not really sure. Again, any advice would be appreciated. I will add one other interesting build I saw. An individual posted a build where he went 3 levels of fighter and then went into bard. I believe the idea is to maximize using a longspear with a shield. I'm a bit hesitate to do that as i'll be behind 3 levels of bard, and I really want heroism ASAP. Here's the first 3 levels of his build.

Fighter (phalanx soldier); +1 hp/level favored class bonus
1st- Improved Shield Bash, Two-Weapon Fighting
2nd- Stand Firm; Flagbearer
3rd- Phalanx Fighting; Quick Draw

Thanks again.


If I went with the Fighter build, I'd likely stay away from the whole Quick Draw thing or TWF. You don't have the feats, and the penalty to attack hurts more than you think.

I like your stats, they look great. I'd personally forget about Quick Draw, you'll likely have summons, the Saboteur's companion and the Paladin up front taking the hits. Consider Lunge instead to attack from behind the lines.

Intimidate is nice. Take Spear Dancer too so you'll dazzle and shake every enemy you hit, the penalties will ramp up.


If you are going with reach and polearms, then level 9 (when you have +6 BAB) definitely should be for the lunge feat.

The lunge feat does not directly help you increase the area you threaten for AoOs, since it ends when your turn ends. But it allows you to strategically place enemies in the best position for drawing AoOs. And that is what reach builds are all about- control through the threat of smacking fools.

Normally, with most reach weapons, you end your turn with the enemy 10' away from you. That means they only need to take a 5' step (which does not draw an AoO) to reach you, and they still get their full attack.

With lunge, you end your turn with the enemy 15' away. Most will have to move 10' to reach you, which means they will draw an AoO and they will most likely lose their full attack. So that is offense and defense with a single feat.

Now, this is not always going to work (big things tend to have the reach to stop it; it is nice to help prevent drawing AoOs yourself from entering their reach though). Still, it works often enough, and even without all that strategic stuff, you can still full attack anything in a 45' wide circle (10' reachx2, 5' lungex2, 5' stepx2, your 5' square). Which is always nice. Overall, it has enough strategic value that I would say it is worth the price of admission.


Lunge at 9 (or 13) is a great suggestion. I would also suggest Discordant Voice at 11. I would grab Flagbearer at 3rd, then go with Power Attack at 5th, Cornugan Smash at 7th. Pick up Combat Reflexes at 13 (or 9) and play like a reach cleric. I would have chosen that from the get go, but Toughness on a d8 class that is on the front line is a hard one to pass up. Spear Dancer is a decent one to pick up too, but that's 2 more feats and I think you're already pretty full up on those. With your party make up, you are going to get much more mileage out of buffing the party (and later summons) to hit more and harder than by attacking on your own. Focusing on reach tactics will make up for the hit to AC, and stacking debuffs on enemies will make you even stronger. Pick up a Cruel enchantment on your Longspear and use an enchanted Mithral Breastplate past level 10 (since Arcane Duelist gets Arcane Armor at 10th).

I will add that I haven't played Iron Gods, so this advice is mostly based on my experience in the 3 other APs I've played and bunches of PFS scenarios. I do assume that there will be a good number of combats against large or bigger foes. That does present a few problems with normal reach tactics, but that can be helped by utilizing tumble and lunge to move about the battlefield and strike.

Liberty's Edge

I'd recommend picking up Arcane Strike to supplement your damage output. Flagbearer is great with a Longspear if your GM will let it work while it's attached to the spear (which it's clearly intended to, as evidenced by the Banner of the Ancient Kings). I've seen plenty of table variation on it though.


He doesn't need to pick up Arcane Strike, he automatically gets it.

Liberty's Edge

... Don't mind me, I'll just be sitting in the corner with a cone on my head.


One option is to consider a few level dip into trench gunner and pick up using a pistol with dex to damage. Arcane strike and blade thirst can make a ranges build very powerful since you can arcane strike the weapon and thirst the ammo for a large amount of free damage.

Other ranged weapons work too, like a bow or something.


You all bring up some great points. I generally always play in back with an archer or casting cleric, so this up front role is new to me. Our wizard is starting to summon creatures, I didn't even think about hanging behind.

I am happy to leave Quick Draw behind, it felt like I wasn't getting a lot out of it. The Lunge suggestion is awesome, and thanks for the breakdown on it. It really makes sense. So it looks like I'll go:

Level 1 - Toughness
Level 3 - Flagbearer
Level 5 - Power Attack
Level 7 - Cornugon Smash
Level 9 - Lunge

I do like Spear Dance, and great suggestion, so I'll have to weigh that against some of the others at level 11+.

I really do like the Cruel weapon enchantment. Originally I was leaning toward Courageous in order to enhance the moral bonuses I'll be under from Heroism or Flagbearer. However, Cruel looks like it has much more of an effect.

One other quick question. What do you all think of the Improved Dirge of Doom feat? With it I could also stack fear effects.

Benefit: The range of your dirge of doom ability is extended to 60 feet. Additionally, if a creature is shaken from another effect, the effect of your dirge of doom is changed to frightened for that specific creature.

Thank you all for the feedback.


If you make it to 10 you can take heavy armor prof or a lvl of a class with it. Then get mythril heavy armor and you can drop the shield and still have good ac.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Arcane Duelist Advice All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.