| Gulian |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special Spells per Day
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
1st +0 +0 +0 +0 Adventuring know-how, Bonus Feat — — — —
2nd +1 +0 +0 +0 In the bag — — — —
3rd +2 +1 +1 +1 Identify magic items, trap sense +1
— — — —
4th +3 +1 +1 +1 Jack of all trades +1, self-sufficient 0 — — —
5th +3 +1 +1 +1 Potion for the occasion, rogue talent, Sneak Attack 1d6 1 — — —
6th +4 +2 +2 +2 Torch mastery, trap sense +2, bonus feat 1 — — —
7th +5 +2 +2 +2 Scent of treasure, fate 1/day 1 0 — —
8th +6/+1 +2 +2 +2 Jack of all trades +2, Sneak Attack 2d6 1 1 — —
9th +6/+1 +3 +3 +3 Trap sense +3
2 1 — —
10th +7/+2 +3 +3 +3 Rogue talent, fate 2/day 2 1 0 —
11th +8/+3 +3 +3 +3 Bonus feat, Sneak Attack 3d6 2 1 1 —
12th +9/+4 +4 +4 +4 Jack of all trades +3, trap sense +4
2 2 1 —
13th +9/+4 +4 +4 +4 Fate 3/day 3 2 1 0
14th +10/+5 +4 +4 +4 Sneak Attack 4d6 3 2 1 1
15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +5 +5 Trap sense +5, rogue talent
3 2 2 1
16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +5 Jack of all trades +4, bonus feat, fate 4/day 3 3 2 1
17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +5 Sneak Attack 5d6 4 3 2 1
18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +6 +6 Trap sense +6
4 3 2 2
19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +6 +6 Fate 5/day 4 3 3 2
20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +6 +6 Jack of all trades +5, rogue talent, bonus feat, Sneak Attack 6d6 4 4 3 2
D8
4 + Int
Proficiencies: Proficient with all simple and one-handed/light martial weapons, light and medium armor and shields (But not tower shields).
Adventuring Know-How (Ex)
The Adventurer may select up to her intellect modifier number of skills. Henceforth, they are counted as class skills for the Adventurer and she gains +2 trait bonus to them.
Bonus Feats (Ex)
At 1st, 6th, 11th and 16th levels, the Adventurer gains a bonus Combat Feat.
The Adventurer may treat her class level as fighter levels for the purpose of qualifying for fighter-only feats. She may take fighter-specific feats only with these bonus feats and not his general ones.
In the Bag (Ex)
An Adventurer of 2nd level and higher can pull out just the right items at the right moment. Once per round, she may ready an item as a standard action if it would normally be a full round action, a move action if it would normally be a standard action, and a swift action if it would normally be a move action.
Identify Magic Items (Ex)
At 3rd level, the Adventurer may use her knowledge to identify magical items. She may examine the item as with the spell detect magic.
Trap Sense (Ex)
At 3rd level, an Adventurer gains a +1 bonus on Reflex saves made to avoid traps and a +1 dodge bonus against attacks made by traps. These bonuses increase by +1 every three Adventurer levels. Trap sense bonuses gained from multiple classes stack.
Jack of All Trades (Ex)
At 4th level, the Adventurer gets a +1 bonus to all saves, attack, knowledge, concentration checks, CMB and CMD checks.
Every 4 levels thereafter, the Adventurer gain an additional +1 to the same things.
Self-sufficient (Ex)
At 4th level, an adventurer gains a +2 bonus on all survival check.
Sneak Attack (Ex)
At 4th level, the Adventurer gains a 1d6 die of sneak attack, as per rogue. Every 4 levels thereafter, this die increases by an additional 1d6 up to 6d6 at level 20.
Spells
Beginning at 4th level, a ranger gains the ability to cast a small number of arcane spells, which are drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. An adventurer must choose and prepare his spells in advance.
To prepare or cast a spell, an adventurer must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against an adventurer’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the ranger's Charisma modifier.
Like other spellcasters, an adventurer can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on the table above. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Charisma score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells). When the table above indicates that the adveturer gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Charisma score for that spell level.
An adventurer must rest 8 hours and spend an additional hour to memorize and prepare his spells to regain his daily allotment of spells. An adventurer may prepare and cast any spell on the sorcerer/wizard spell list, provided that he can cast spells of that level, but he must choose which spells to prepare during his preparations.
Through 3rd level, an adventurer has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, his caster level is equal to his adventurer level – 3.
Potion Abuse (Ex)
At 5th level an Adventurer is very accustomed to using potions in her various escapades. She gains a bonus to saves against potion-based side-effects equal to half her level.
Sneak Attack (Ex)
At 5th level, the Adventurer gains a 1d6 die of sneak attack, as per rogue. Every 4 levels thereafter, this die increases by an additional 1d6 up to 6d6 at level 20.
Rogue Talents (Ex)
At 5th level, the Adventurer gains a rogue talent. Her level counts at 4 lower for the purpose of qualifying for rogue talents. Every 5 levels thereafter, she gains another rogue talent.
An adventurer may select rogue talents from the rogue talent list, but not from the advanced rogue talents.
Torch Mastery (Ex)
At 6th level, the Adventurer may treat the torch as a martial weapon. Holding a torch does not hinder the adventurer in any way or form and he is thus able to equip a shield on the same hand without any penalties.
A torch in an adventurer’s hands lasts double its normal lifespan.
Scent of Treasure (Ex)
At 7th level the adventurer may add half his level to perception checks made to locate treasure. Any beneficial, precious, magical item or artifact is considered to be treasure. Gold coins, but not silver or copper unless there are hoards of such, are considered treasure.
Fate (Su)
At 7th level the adventurer gains an epic fate, destined for greatness or to assist another in gaining such. The Adventurer may reroll any roll once per day, be it his own, his allies’ or his enemies. If used on himself or his allies, they take the better of the two rolls. If used on enemies, they take the worst. This must be declare before the DM announces the results of the roll. Fate may not be used more often than once per round.
At 10th level and every there levels thereafter, the adventurer gain another use per day of Fate.
| Gulian |
I think Channel Energy is a bit thematically weird for this class. Then again, the fact that I find arcane spells more thematically suitable than clerical abilities might just be subjective.
I could add some domain powers. Maybe some inquisitor-like stuff.
I could also, like, swap his 4 levels of arcane casting for 2 levels of both divine and arcane spellcasting, kind of like the rogue talent abilities.
| UsagiTaicho |
I was just on a roll with the whole Red Mage concept. Most of your abilities for this class seem to be stacking ones. Sneak attack, Trap Sense, Jack of All Trades... What's one more stacking ability? Channel Energy could be right up there. It provides healing, or damaging, plus a nice little ray ability that's always so fine. Course, to add it you might have to shuffle some things around.
That's if you're trying to go Red Mage. If you're going more Factotum, then I would suggest the 2/2 arcane/divine thing. Or hell, give him 4/4 but limit his selection to only so many.
I'm Hiding In Your Closet
|
I agree with Gulian; Channel Energy doesn't fit the class - there should be something else, though. I figured I'd keep mum and let Gulian figure that out for themselves, though.
One idea I had in that vein, though, was actually that it got an increasing rate of Fast Healing....
Your instincts are good, Gulian - I suggest you trust them. Just because you can't communicate something doesn't necessarily make it "subjective." There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio....
On a more banal note, it needs a base set of class skills. I think it could bear 6+Int skill points/day, too.
| Gulian |
It might indeed bear 6+Int, but I didn't want to assume too much. We'll see.
Perhaps a Domain ability could work for the class at, say, level 7ish or upwards. Works thematically well, since that's the same level the Adventurer gets the Fate ability.
and let Gulian figure that out for themselves
WE ARE THE GULIAN. COWER, PUNY EARTHLINGS. Ahem.
-------------
@Usagi
I'm not really trying to go for the Red Mage concept you've made, Usagi, but rather a really generic representation of an adventurer. That bright-eyed young man with a longsword and an endless amount of hopes and dreams. You could even say this is a bit of a JRPGish way to view the concept, but I guess it doesn't really matter.
I think 4/4 is too much. It takes away a paladins/rangers niche from them and stacks even more stuff on top of it, which I'm not fond of.
The truth is, you could take 2 levels of divine casting through the provided rogue talents without much trouble, so that could work out well.
--------------
I think a Domain ability or Inquisition should work. Alternatively, I could just give them a limited Smite ability. Or nah. I'll think on it.
| Cap. Darling |
to me it is just a mixture of abbilities that have little flavor as it is. And i think bard, inquisitor, investigator and slayer all does it better. I cannot think of a single hero in a book or a film that i would put in this class. I like your warrior better.
And the Jack of all trades is silly just give them 3 good saves and full bab instead of making them having a screwed raise where that start weak and then go to full bab level every 4 level and having almost good saves after level 12 but crap before that. Pehaps giving them somthing like the investigator inspiration May be a option to fix the skill hole that removing JOAT will make.
| Gulian |
I personally like the class and I can think of a ton of heroes to fit into this concept. What you're currently saying isn't really mechanic's based or a problem. You're just describing your personal preference.
Full bab and good saves from the start is overpowered. Not happening. The way it is right now is alright. It puts them below other classes in their niche but gives them a good slice of the pie, which is exactly what this was aimed for.
| Cap. Darling |
I personally like the class and I can think of a ton of heroes to fit into this concept. What you're currently saying isn't really mechanic's based or a problem. You're just describing your personal preference.
Full bab and good saves from the start is overpowered. Not happening. The way it is right now is alright. It puts them below other classes in their niche but gives them a good slice of the pie, which is exactly what this was aimed for.
They start out as commoners with better skills and a bonus feat. That is sad for a guy that dosent get spells until level 4. Even a wizard is a more powerfull guy at level 1. I think that is bad. Compare it to any other class in the a little bit of everything niche. Every one of them is better. This guy is behind the curve until level 12 and after he is on par with the rogue and that is too low a bar. IMOP. Compare it to your warrior class and ask if they play in the same league. I would take a figther/cleric/wizard/rogue over this guy.
Edit:ok pehaps i dont meen the figther/cleric/wizard/rogue thing totally litterally.| Gulian |
Could give him a good fortitude save progression, sure.
Jack of all trades provides him with a scaling attack bonus. He can also take Improved Weapon Focus to give himself a boost in that department, if he really needs to.
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That's literally it, Cap. It's a commoner that picked up a sword and went out into the big world, learning whatever he can along the way to help him survive.
Honestly, if you completely discard flavoured for efficiency, you can just play druids and wizards all the time and call all the other classes bad.
I can compare it to the Magus, for instance. Magus has more of s casting shtick to him, but does he have sneak attack and rogue talents?
We could try the paladin or Warpriest. If I add some domain powers to the class at level 7 like I planned, the distance between this class and them is bridged by the variety of abilities it borrows from other classes.
Compare it to the rogue? The adventurer may have less sneak attack damage and less talents, but he's got more hit chance, which the rogue complains about. And some spellcasting etc.
Bottom line is: The adventurer isn't supposed to be better at being a fighter, magus, rogue and so on than the classes it borrowed it's abilities from. It's supposed to have other options to deal with a variety of situations.
| Cap. Darling |
Could give him a good fortitude save progression, sure.
Jack of all trades provides him with a scaling attack bonus. He can also take Improved Weapon Focus to give himself a boost in that department, if he really needs to.
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That's literally it, Cap. It's a commoner that picked up a sword and went out into the big world, learning whatever he can along the way to help him survive.
Honestly, if you completely discard flavoured for efficiency, you can just play druids and wizards all the time and call all the other classes bad.
I can compare it to the Magus, for instance. Magus has more of s casting shtick to him, but does he have sneak attack and rogue talents?
We could try the paladin or Warpriest. If I add some domain powers to the class at level 7 like I planned, the distance between this class and them is bridged by the variety of abilities it borrows from other classes.
Compare it to the rogue? The adventurer may have less sneak attack damage and less talents, but he's got more hit chance, which the rogue complains about. And some spellcasting etc.
Bottom line is: The adventurer isn't supposed to be better at being a fighter, magus, rogue and so on than the classes it borrowed it's abilities from. It's supposed to have other options to deal with a variety of situations.
If that is the goal then ok. I guess there is a certain tradition for screwing some classes over. And the adventure Can stand with the rogue. I dont Think anybody Will be happy playing him but you know your players better than i do.
| Lemmy |
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I believe every PC class should be viable. Being underpowered doesn't make it any more flavorful... Just less effective. This class has nothing that would allow it to overshadow any class other than the weakest ones in the game... And even then, not by much.
Being effective shouldn't require that you play a completely different class, and if someone is interested in playing this one, they probably don't want to play a Wizard, Cleric or Druid, as those classes have completely different flavor and mechanics.
It's never fun to play the load, no matter how flavorful the class supposedly is... And TBH, this class is too generic to be truly flavorful.
Still... It's your class and your players. I'm merely sharing my opinion.
| Excaliburproxy |
I dunno. With the accuracy bonus from Jack of all trades, this class may out-damage the rogue in the long run.
However, with 4+int skills, there is little reason to play this class over something like the investigator or inquisitor who get more skills, 3/4 casting, and similar or better accuracy and damage buffs. Also note that the investigator and inquisitor get bonuses to their skills as well.
Fate is a pretty good class ability, though.
Here is what I suggest:
Give the class trapfinding and 6+int skills at level 1. Between that and the bonus feat, you will at least be competing with a level 1 rogue on some level and I think it would be bizarre if an adventurer could not take point finding traps.
Also, make a damn skill list. Getting extra choice in your skills is cool, but at least give this guy enough class skills that he is not forced to put ranks in non-class skills. May I suggest: Climb, Swim, Acrobatics, Knowledge(Any), stealth, perception, and disable device.
Move up Jack of all trades by one level (to 3) and have it stagger accordingly up to +5 at 19). I would also let you add Jack of all trades to damage and caster level checks.
Then at level 4, give this class their first use of the fate ability. Fun additional note: you ultimately end up with 7 uses of the ability instead of 6 which is a much luckier number.
Also at level 4, let this class choose between casting as a wizard or a cleric (using charisma regardless). Then at level 12, let him cast the spells of either. Any cleric spell can be added to a spell book so long as the Adventurer is willing to pay for the special ink.
Yeah, this is a pretty weak class overall. Why not good saves? I'd rather see them have a good Fort/Will, and 1-6th level casting, but if you're cool with a weaker class, go for it.
I think that you and others fail to notice that this class adds their jack of all trades bonus to saves. They don't really have good or bad saves if you take that into account. They have all "okay" saves.
| marcryser |
Here is an ADVENTURER class I made up several months ago as a possibility (unfulfilled at this point) for a homebrew game. It is offered as a comparisson only.
Adventurer
Many people who adventure, either through force of habit or simple determination to be 'the best' at something, pursue a narrowly defined role. This, they feel, is what it means to be a member of a group.
Others realize that to specialize is to always be at the whim of the fates, hoping against hope that this won't be the time where their own set of perfected skills won't be sufficient to get them through alive. The Adventurer is someone who pursues all skills and seeks to be self-reliant above all. He knows that he will never win a duel against a dedicated fighter or knight nor will he defeat an arch-mage in a spell duel. However, a well-rounded Adventurer knows that he can befuddle the warrior with a few well placed illusions and defeat the wizard with a sharp piece of steel.
Role: Adventurers strive to be the masters of flexibility and adaptability so that they can overcome all obstacles. They work well in a party with any other classes and seek to support those characters. They frequently become the leader of a party or the glue that holds the party together because they can see any problem from a multitude of angles simultaneously.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d8.
Class Skills
The adventurer's class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Stealth (Dex), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
Skill Ranks per Level: 6 + Int modifier.
TABLE: ADVENTURER
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Spells per Day
0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th
1st +0 +2 +2 +2 cantrips,
2 — — — —
2nd +1 +3 +3 +3 Spells 3 1 — — —
3rd +2 +3 +3 +3 +1d6 sneak attack 3 1 — — —
4th +3 +4 +4 +4 Weapon of Choice 4 2 — — —
5th +3 +4 +4 +4 4 2 — — —
6th +4 +5 +5 +5 trapfinding 4 2 1 — —
7th +5 +5 +5 +5 +2d6 sneak attack 4 2 1 — —
8th +6 +6 +6 +6 Weapon of Choice 4 3 2 — —
9th +6 +6 +6 +6 Evasion 4 3 2 — —
10th +7 +7 +7 +7 4 3 2 1 —
11th +8 +7 +7 +7 +3d6 sneak attack 4 3 2 1 —
12th +9 +8 +8 +8 Weapon of Choice 4 3 3 2 —
13th +9 +8 +8 +8 4 3 3 2 —
14th +10 +9 +9 +9 4 4 3 2 1
15th +11 +9 +9 +9 +4d6 sneak attack 4 4 3 2 1
16th +12 +10 +10 +10 Weapon of Choice 4 4 3 3 2
17th +12 +10 +10 +10 4 4 3 3 2
18th +13 +11 +11 +11 4 4 4 3 2
19th +14 +11 +11 +11 +5d6 sneak attack 4 4 4 3 2
20th +15 +12 +12 +12 4 4 4 3 3
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the adventurer.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An adventurer is proficient with all simple weapons, plus the longsword, rapier, scimitar, shortbow, and longbow. Adventurers are also proficient with light armor, medium armor and shields (except tower shields). An adventurer can cast adventurer spells while wearing light armor and use a shield without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. Like any other arcane spellcaster, an adventurer wearing medium or heavy armor incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component. A multiclass adventurer still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.
Spells: An adventurer casts arcane spells drawn from the adventurer spell list. A wizard must choose and prepare his spells ahead of time.
To learn, prepare, or cast a spell, the adventurer must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a spell is 10 + the spell level + the adventurer's Intelligence modifier.
An adventurer can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Adventurer. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Intelligence score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells).
An Adventurer may know any number of spells. He must choose and prepare his spells ahead of time by getting 8 hours of sleep and spending 1 hour studying his spellbook. While studying, the adventurer decides which spells to prepare.
Cantrips: Adventurers can prepare a number of cantrips, or 0-level spells, each day, as noted on Table: Adventurer under “Spells per Day.” These spells are cast like any other spell, but they are not expended when cast and may be used again.
Sneak Attack: If an adventurer can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage.
The adventurer's attack deals extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the he flanks his target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and increases as shown on the adventurer table. Should the adventurer score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied. Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.
The adventurer must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. An adventurer cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment.
Weapon of Choice: At 4th level, an adventurer selects a single weapon with which he is proficient. When using that weapon, he is treated as having the weapon focus feat.
At 8th level when using his weapon of choice, he is considered to have weapon specialization.
At 12th level when using his weapon of choice, he is considered to have improved critical.
At 16th level when using his weapon of choice, he increases the critical multiplier by 1 (from x2 to x3 for a longsword)
0-Level Adventurer Spells (Cantrips)
Abjuration
Resistance: Subject gains +1 on saving throws.
Divination
Detect Magic: Detects all spells and magic items within 60 ft.
Detect Poison: Detects poison in one creature or small object.
Read Magic: Read scrolls and spellbooks.
Evocation
Dancing Lights: Creates torches or other lights.
Light: Object shines like a torch.
Illusion
Ghost Sound: Figment sounds.
Necromancy
Disrupt Undead: Deals 1d6 damage to one undead.
Transmutation
Mage Hand: 5-pound telekinesis.
Mending: Makes minor repairs on an object.
Message: Whisper conversation at distance.
Open/Close: Opens or closes small or light things.
Universal
Arcane Mark: Inscribes a personal rune on an object or creature (visible or invisible).
Prestidigitation: Performs minor tricks.
1st-Level Adventurer Spells
Abjuration
Alarm: Wards an area for 2 hours/level.
Endure Elements: Exist comfortably in hot or cold regions.
Hold Portal: Holds door shut.
Prot. from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law: +2 to AC and saves, plus additional protection against selected alignment.
Shield: Invisible disc gives +4 to AC, blocks magic missiles.
Conjuration
Grease: Makes 10-ft. square or one object slippery.
Mage Armor: Gives subject +4 armor bonus.
Divination
Comprehend Languages: You understand all spoken and written languages.
Detect Secret Doors: Reveals hidden doors within 60 ft.
Identify: Gives +10 bonus to identify magic items.
True Strike: +20 on your next attack roll.
Enchantment
Sleep: Puts 4 HD of creatures into magical slumber.
Evocation
Magic Missile: 1d4+1 damage; +1 missile per two levels above 1st (max 5).
Illusion
Disguise Self: Changes your appearance.
Transmutation
Expeditious Retreat: Your base speed increases by 30 ft.
Feather Fall: Objects or creatures fall slowly.
Jump: Subject gets bonus on Acrobatics checks.
Magic Weapon: Weapon gains +1 bonus.
2nd-Level Adventurer Spells
Abjuration
Resist Energy: Ignores first 10 (or more) points of damage per attack from specified energy type.
Divination
Locate Object: Senses direction toward object (specific or type).
See Invisibility: Reveals invisible creatures or objects.
Evocation
Continual FlameM: Makes a permanent, heatless light.
Darkness: 20-ft. radius of supernatural shadow.
Illusion
Invisibility: Subject is invisible for 1 min./level or until it attacks.
Mirror Image: Creates decoy duplicates of you.
Transmutation
Alter Self: Assume form of a Small or Medium humanoid.
Bear's Endurance: Subject gains +4 to Con for 1 min./level.
Bull's Strength: Subject gains +4 to Str for 1 min./level.
Cat's Grace: Subject gains +4 to Dex for 1 min./level.
Darkvision: See 60 ft. in total darkness.
Eagle's Splendor: Subject gains +4 to Cha for 1 min./level.
Fox's Cunning: Subject gains +4 to Int for 1 min./level.
Knock: Opens locked or magically sealed door.
Owl's Wisdom: Subject gains +4 to Wis for 1 min./level.
Spider Climb: Grants ability to walk on walls and ceilings.
3rd-Level Sorcerer/Wizard Spells
Abjuration
Dispel Magic: Cancels one magical spell or effect.
Magic Circle against Chaos/Evil/Good/Law: As protection spells, but 10-ft. radius and 10 min./level.
Protection from Energy: Absorbs 12 points/level of damage from one kind of energy.
Divination
Clairaudience/Clairvoyance: Hear or see at a distance for 1 min./level.
Tongues: Speak and understand any language.
Enchantment
Deep Slumber: Puts 10 HD of creatures to sleep.
Heroism: Gives +2 bonus on attack rolls, saves, skill checks.
Evocation
Daylight: 60-ft. radius of bright light.
Fireball: 1d6 damage per level, 20-ft. radius.
Lightning Bolt: Electricity deals 1d6/level damage.
Illusion
Displacement: Attacks miss subject 50% of the time.
Transmutation
Blink: You randomly vanish and reappear for 1 round per level.
Fly: Subject flies at speed of 60 ft.
Haste: One creature/level moves faster, +1 on attack rolls, AC, and Reflex saves.
Keen Edge: Doubles normal weapon's threat range.
Magic Weapon, Greater: Weapon gains +1 bonus/four levels (max +5).
Slow: One subject/level takes only one action/round, –1 to AC, Reflex saves, and attack rolls.
Water Breathing: Subjects can breathe underwater.
4th-Level Sorcerer/Wizard Spells
Abjuration
Globe of Invulnerability, Lesser: Stops 1st- through 3rd-level spell effects.
Remove Curse: Frees object or person from curse.
Stoneskin: Grants DR 10/adamantine.
Conjuration
Dimension Door: Teleports you a short distance.
Minor Creation: Creates one cloth or wood object.
Secure Shelter: Creates sturdy cottage.
Divination
Arcane Eye: Invisible floating eye moves 30 ft./round.
Detect Scrying: Alerts you to magical eavesdropping
Locate Creature: Indicates direction to familiar creature.
Scrying: Spies on subject from a distance.
Enchantment
Charm Monster: Makes monster believe it is your ally.
Confusion: Subjects behave oddly for 1 round/level.
Evocation
Fire Shield: Creatures attacking you take fire damage; you're protected from heat or cold.
Ice Storm: Hail deals 5d6 damage in cylinder 40 ft. across.
Illusion
Invisibility, Greater: As invisibility, but subject can attack and stay invisible.
Necromancy
Fear: Subjects within cone flee for 1 round/level.
Transmutation
Mnemonic Enhancer: Wizard only. Prepare extra spells or retain one just cast.
Stone Shape: Sculpts stone into any shape.
| Gulian |
Bit of a mixed response from the community, but that's fine.
Alright, I'll give it a bit of a boost. Trapfinding sounds good.
I had the same impression that perhaps Jack of All Trades comes in too late, especially with the slow save progression.
I'll move it up to level 3. The whole reason it was at 4 was because I was trying to punish people who tried to dip for it.
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On another note, what if we give the adventurer indefinite access to wizard and cleric spell lists, with the use of a spell book to help him prepare abilities? Meaning that, for instance, if the Adventurer chooses to have a high charisma, he'll have higher level spell slots open to him, which he can use for higher level spells. But he'll never have enough to, for instance, have over 1 spell slot of something like 6th-7th level.
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I get exactly what you're saying and I agree. I just think that if you focus on the part where all classes need to be effective, spellcasters either need a nerf or melee characters need very powerful BAB based feats, which require 16+ BAB so that no one else could reach them.
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@macryser
I see what you've aimed for, but it really looks like a rogue without rogue talents, 4 levels of casting and less sneak attack.
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Here's an updated Adventurer.
A TL;DR version:
1) Made the changes suggested by Excalibur.
2) Added a Domain ability at level 4, using the Adventurer's level -3 as his cleric level for the purpose of qualifying for domain powers. The Adventurer also gains domain spells, but not spell slots. Instead, he must have a high enough charisma to cast them and have a bonus spell slot available. (He gains bonus spell slots from Charisma, after all.)
3) Jack of all Trades, not at level 4, grants a bonus to AC. Instead of the knowledge bonus, the Adventurer instead gets an additional amount of skill points equal to his INT mod.
4) Identify Magic Items grants the adventurer a +2 trait bonus to Spellcraft.
5) Added Trapfinding at level 1. He's just as good at traps as a rogue now. I wonder if that hurts the rogue's niche, though.
6) Changed to 6 + Int skill points.
Comments: I decided not to go with the fortitude save progression. I think Jack of All Trades makes up for that in the long run. And you're not really supposed to have more fortitude saves than the Fighter at lower/mid levels anyway. Or more saves than any class who's supposed to have good saves in something. (If I honestly had a say in things, I'd remove a paladin's good will save progression and make Divine Grace affect only Will saves. I'd also remove a Ranger's good fortitude progression and leave them with a reflex save one.)
Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special Spells per Day
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
1st +0 +0 +0 +0 Adventuring know-how, Bonus Feat, Trapfinding — — — —
2nd +1 +0 +0 +0 In the bag — — — —
3rd +2 +1 +1 +1 Trap sense +1, Jack of all trades +1 — — — —
4th +3 +1 +1 +1 Self-sufficient, fate 1/day, fate’s favored 0 — — —
5th +3 +1 +1 +1 Potion Abuse, rogue talent, Sneak Attack 1d6 1 — — —
6th +4 +2 +2 +2 Torch mastery, trap sense +2, bonus feat 1 — — —
7th +5 +2 +2 +2 Scent of treasure, Jack of all trades +2, fate 2/day 1 0 — —
8th +6/+1 +2 +2 +2 Sneak Attack 2d6 1 1 — —
9th +6/+1 +3 +3 +3 Trap sense +3
2 1 — —
10th +7/+2 +3 +3 +3 Rogue talent, fate 3/day 2 1 0 —
11th +8/+3 +3 +3 +3 Bonus feat, Sneak Attack 3d6, Jack of all trades +3 2 1 1 —
12th +9/+4 +4 +4 +4 trap sense +4
2 2 1 —
13th +9/+4 +4 +4 +4 Fate 4/day 3 2 1 0
14th +10/+5 +4 +4 +4 Sneak Attack 4d6 3 2 1 1
15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +5 +5 Trap sense +5, rogue talent, Jack of all trades +4 3 2 2 1
16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +5 Bonus feat, fate 5/day 3 3 2 1
17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +5 Sneak Attack 5d6 4 3 2 1
18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +6 +6 Trap sense +6
4 3 2 2
19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +6 +6 Fate 6/day, Jack of all trades +5 4 3 3 2
20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +6 +6 Rogue talent, bonus feat, Sneak Attack 6d6 4 4 3 2
D8
6 + Int
Skills: Climb (STR), Swim (STR), Acrobatics (DEX), Disable Device, Spellcraft, Knowledge (Dungeoneering), Knowledge (Planes), Knowledge (Religion), Perception (WIS), Diplomacy (CHA), Stealth (DEX), Bluff (CHA), Profession (WIS), Sense Motive (WIS), Survival (WIS), Use Magic Device (CHA), Linguistics (INT), Appraise (INT), Craft (INT)
Adventuring Know-How (Ex)
The Adventurer may select up to her intellect modifier number of skills. Henceforth, they are counted as class skills for the Adventurer and she gains +2 trait bonus to them.
Bonus Feats
At 1st, 6th, 11th and 16th levels, the Adventurer gains a bonus Combat Feat.
The Adventurer may treat her class level as fighter levels for the purpose of qualifying for fighter-only feats. She may take fighter-specific feats only with these bonus feats and not his general ones.
In the Bag (Ex)
An Adventurer of 2nd level and higher can retrieve pull out just the right items at the right moment. Once per round, she may ready an item as a standard action if it would normally be a full round action, a move action if it would normally be a standard action, and a swift action if it would normally be a move action.
Trapfinding (Ex)
An adventurer adds 1/2 her level to Perception skill checks made to locate traps and to Disable Device skill checks (minimum +1). An adventurer can use Disable Device to disarm magic traps.
Trap Sense (Ex)
At 3rd level, an Adventurer gains a +1 bonus on Reflex saves made to avoid traps and a +1 dodge bonus against attacks made by traps. These bonuses increase by +1 every three Adventurer levels. Trap sense bonuses gained from multiple classes stack.
Jack of All Trades (Ex)
At 4th level, the Adventurer gets a +1 bonus to all saves, attack, AC, concentration checks, CMB and CMD checks. The adventurer also gets an additional amount of skill points equal to his intelligence modifier which he can distribute as per normal.
Every 4 levels thereafter, the Adventurer gain an additional +1 to the same things, as well as the skill point.
Fate’s Favored (Su)
Some powerful being out there has recognized the Adventurer’s destiny for greatness. The Adventurer can choose a domain as per the cleric’s Domain ability, using his adventurer level as his cleric level -3 for the purpose of qualifying for domain powers.
The adventurer gains domain spell slots as per normal, however he does not gain any additional spell slots which he can use on them. Instead, he can prepare and cast them as long as he has a high enough Charisma to gain a bonus spell slot of the level of the spell he knows and wishes to cast.
Self-sufficient (Ex)
At 4th level, an adventurer gains a +2 bonus on all survival check.
Sneak Attack (Ex)
At 4th level, the Adventurer gains a 1d6 die of sneak attack, as per rogue. Every 4 levels thereafter, this die increases by an additional 1d6 up to 6d6 at level 20.
Spells
Beginning at 4th level, a ranger gains the ability to cast a small number of arcane spells, which are drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. An adventurer must choose and prepare his spells in advance.
To prepare or cast a spell, an adventurer must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against an adventurer’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the ranger's Charisma modifier.
Like other spellcasters, an adventurer can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on the table above. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Charisma score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells). When the table above indicates that the adveturer gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Charisma score for that spell level.
An adventurer must rest 8 hours and spend an additional hour to memorize and prepare his spells to regain his daily allotment of spells. An adventurer may prepare and cast any spell on the sorcerer/wizard spell list, provided that he can cast spells of that level, but he must choose which spells to prepare during his preparations.
Through 3rd level, an adventurer has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, his caster level is equal to his adventurer level – 3.
Potion Abuse (Ex)
At 5th level an Adventurer is very accustomed to using potions in her various escapades. She gains a bonus to saves against potion-based side-effects equal to half her level.
Sneak Attack (Ex)
At 5th level, the Adventurer gains a 1d6 die of sneak attack, as per rogue. Every 4 levels thereafter, this die increases by an additional 1d6 up to 6d6 at level 20.
Rogue Talents (Ex)
At 5th level, the Adventurer gains a rogue talent. Her level counts at 4 lower for the purpose of qualifying for rogue talents. Every 5 levels thereafter, she gains another rogue talent.
An adventurer may select rogue talents from the rogue talent list, but not from the advanced rogue talents.
Torch Mastery (Ex)
At 6th level, the Adventurer may treat the torch as a martial weapon. Holding a torch does not hinder the adventurer in any way or form and he is thus able to equip a shield on the same hand without any penalties.
A torch in an adventurer’s hands lasts double its normal lifespan.
Scent of Treasure (Ex)
At 7th level the adventurer may add half his level to perception checks made to locate treasure. Any beneficial, precious, magical item or artifact is considered to be treasure. Gold coins, but not silver or copper unless there are hoards of such, are considered treasure.
Fate (Su)
At 4th level the adventurer gains an epic fate, destined for greatness or to assist another in gaining such. The Adventurer may reroll any roll once per day, be it his own, his allies’ or his enemies. If used on himself or his allies, they take the better of the two rolls. If used on enemies, they take the worst. This must be declare before the DM announces the results of the roll. Fate may not be used more often than once per round.
At 7th level and every there levels thereafter, the adventurer gain another use per day of Fate.
| Oly |
This is a too-weak class as written, though a good concept. Bards have enough unique abilities that they aren't the true jacks of all trades.
The bad saves aren't too bad, given the "Jack of All Trades" save bonuses. I'd change it around, though: Give them all "average" saves (the midpoint between a good save and a bad save) and then remove the +1 to saves from "Jack Of All Trades." Keep the rest.
Give them, as bonus spells, the choice between all "Cure" spells or all "Inflict" spells (based on good/evil alignment, neutral chooses one or the other) that they could cast as clerics at the spell levels they can cast (i.e. none until Level 4, when they gain Cure/Inflict Light Wounds, etc.) The caster level of those spells would be as a Cleric 3 levels lower.
6 + Int skills, definitely, and pick some generalist-type skills to be automatic class skills, and then allow them to add a number of skills equal to their Int modifier to add to the list, with the full +3 class skill bonus. Also, let them (as a weaker but more versatile "Inspiration" use from the Investigator class) add 1d4 to all skill rolls in trained skills.
Give them an "Adventurer's Luck" bonus around Level 6, that once per day they can reroll a d20 roll after it's rolled (but before a result is announced, with the usual restriction of taking the second result even if worse). At Level 10, they instead can announce before a d20 roll once per day they want to roll twice and take the higher result. At Level 14, they can still do either, but it can be twice a day. At Level 18, the second roll gets a +2 bonus.
And because they might take the character in varying directions, the bonus combat feats should just be bonus feats of any type wanted.
Then, it should be a playable class.
| Gulian |
Average saves don't really exist in the Pathfinder system, so I'm afraid that's not something I can give wihout enforcing a different homerule behind the class.
If average saves would be a thing, you'd have to rebalance a whole lot of the classes, too. So, not in this thread.
------------
Some of the changes to the class, which you can find in the post above yours, adress your concerns.
Fate acts like Adventurer's Luck, really. I think at 6 times per day, it's fine as it is. It's given at level 4 to compensate for some aspects of the class.
By taking the right domain, the Adventurer could give himself cure or inflict spells if he wants. As it stands, I don't really find those to be absolutely "necesarry" to the flavor of the class.
| Oly |
Average saves don't really exist in the Pathfinder system, so I'm afraid that's not something I can give wihout enforcing a different homerule behind the class.
If average saves would be a thing, you'd have to rebalance a whole lot of the classes, too. So, not in this thread.
------------
Some of the changes to the class, which you can find in the post above yours, adress your concerns.
Fate acts like Adventurer's Luck, really. I think at 6 times per day, it's fine as it is. It's given at level 4 to compensate for some aspects of the class.
By taking the right domain, the Adventurer could give himself cure or inflict spells if he wants. As it stands, I don't really find those to be absolutely "necesarry" to the flavor of the class.
You're right on most of those things. I hadn't seen the second draft.
As to the average saves, I know PF doesn't use them in the base game, but I came across the idea in someone else's suggestion post and really like it in some contexts, such as this. If it were up to me, I'd have the "default" for classes be one good save, one average save, and one poor save. There'd be many exceptions, but that would be the base. In this case, all three saves would be average.
But then, the saving throw bonuses essentially make saves average or so, so it's not that big a deal.
The cure spells were more out of the idea that the class draws a bit from all types of classes, but nothing (besides domains) from clerics.
But you did make a lot of positive changes, and with the changes you already made it seems like a fairly playable class.