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I have a question about these talents. It doesn't say so in either Talent specifically, but Does my Rogue Level count as my Alchemist Level for the purpose of determining what Bomb related Discoveries I can take with Bomber's Discovery. Is this a misprint? Also, for things like saving throw DC's do I simply calculate that as would an Alchemist: 10 + 1/2 Rogue level + Intelligence modifier.
Can Bomber's Discovery be taken multiple times: so that you can get several different ways to modify your bombs, are are you only able to take this discovery once?
I like both discoveries, but their wording is sparse and levels a lot to be assumed.
Can we get some clarification please?
Links:
Bomber's Discovery
Good questions, I would imagine it's class level too. I was disappointed to not see a clause saying that if the rogue took Throw Anything they'd get Intelligence to damage. Ah well.
The problem is that they didn't give much information for either of these Talents. This leaves a lot to be assumed by both the DM and player. Strictly going by the wording for Bomber: These bombs act as alchemist's bombs, except they deal damage equal to the damage dealt by the rogue's sneak attack (the rogue doesn't add her Intelligence modifier to this damage). one would assume anything that brings the save DC into play means its 10 + 1/2 Level? + Intelligence Mod. But is that really the case? Because one could try and argue your Alchemist Level is technically 0 which makes anything Save DC related suck. But that seems stupid. On the other hand you also argue that your Rogue Level is your alchemist level, but nowhere in the talent description does it explicitly state that.
Then there is the issue with Bomber's Discovery. If assuming your Rogue Level is treated as your alchemist level for the purpose of determining save DCs one could also assume that you would also use that to determine what Bomb Related Discoveries you could qualify for if there is an Alchemist level prerequisite. If this is not the case it really restricts what Bomb Related Discoveries you can take. And there is no mention as to if this is a Rogue Talent that can be taken more than once. If you can only take it once then it really sucks because that means every single Rogue will probably pick the Bomb Discovery. But if you allow people to sink multiple Rogue Talents into it then you could get more variety with your bombs.
I just hate it when the write something half assed like this. It has the potential to be good and give something back to the rogue. But its just so poorly written.
Starting to get disappointed by the rules section of pathfinder products. Of the 3 last purchases I made, all of them have either blatant errors or a misinterpretation of a core rule or unfinished :S Then erratas don't come around.
As much as I just want to say that its my game and my opinion is final at my own table, it still would be nice if we knew how it was originally intended to work. Because when I have to make a ruling on it, I don't want it to seem arbitrary or like I favor a particular class. Also I'm loathe to use 3rd party material because I never know if its balanced compared to core products which I consider a baseline to make judgements. When core products are poorly written like this, and I have to start "assuming", it makes me feel like I'm no better than a 3rd party that's twisting material to fit my own needs.
And you're right, the errata often doesn't come out fast enough, unless its a glaringly HUGE system issue that needs immediate attention.
When playing Heroscape, we often said: Do what the card says, not what it doesn't say.
If something isn't there, assume there is a reason for that and just do what the talent says.
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The rogue talent allows you to take an alchemist discovery that modifies a bomb. RAW this means you can take ANY discovery that modifies a bomb regardless of your level.
It's a reasonable house rule to only allow discoveries that have an alchemist level equal to your rogue level, but that isn't what is written.
When playing Heroscape, we often said: Do what the card says, not what it doesn't say.
If something isn't there, assume there is a reason for that and just do what the talent says.
So your bomb DCs are 10 + 1/2 alchemist level + Int for a rogue cause that's the original? Because it does not say to use rogue or character levels.
No, this is, sorry to say, a stupid way to go about it. Pathfinder rules are written poorly and wrongly lately and just dont work. It isnt about reading more or less into the rules.
Replacing alchemist with rogue (since it is a rogue talent) is just common sense...which is not so common anymore, these days.
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Rogue gets: Int Mod bombs per day
Alchemist gets: Int + Class Level bombs per day
Range 20' for both.
Rogue gets: No INT bonus to damage
Alchemist gets: INT bonus on damage
Rogue gets: sneak attack damage added
Alchemist gets: base Bomb damage
So, no. The feat doesn't really allow the Rogue to make the same use of bombs as an alchemist. The get no "insight" (INT BONUS) to using these splash weapons, nor the quantity that Alchemists get.
Here's an interesting idea for a Vivisectionist though: what happens when they dip Rogue to get this Rogue Talent?