I think I understand this, but let's try an example. In several parts. :-)
Harsk wants an efficient quiver. He's a ranger, so he can't make one on his own.
Simplest option is to buy one. He's in Sandpoint, so he's not likely to find one for sale here. He'll have to go to Magnimar, where he'll have a 75% chance to find one. Cost: 1800 GP.
Second option: hire a mage to make one for him. He'll need a mage capable of casting a 5th level spell, so probably a 9th level wizard. Again, he'll have to go to Magnimar to find one. Cost: 1800 GP - half of which is the wizard's cost to make it, so half is the wizard's profit. If the wizard is higher than 9th level, it will cost him more (I think).
Question: if Harsk finds a leatherworker to make the quiver, can he save money on the total cost? I'm guessing no.
Third option: switch class to wizard and learn to make it himself. He'll have to work his way up to 9th level and get the "craft wondrous item" feat. Cost: 900 GP, which includes the cost of the quiver and also any spell components needed. Oh, and he'll have to learn the "secret chest" spell. I would guess that in this application of that spell, the small model of the "secret chest" object (see the spell description) is not required, and not used in practice, because this isn't an item you summon, it's one you wear. Oh, and if he gets leather crafting he could make the (non-wondrous) quiver himself (not sure at what cost). Seems like an awful lot of work - and time. I suspect he'd rather go to Magnimar and buy one. :-)
Last question: the description in the CRB of the efficient quiver says "CL: 9" I assume this is because 9th is the minimum level at which a wizard can cast the required spell, and that the CL of the item only affects any saving throw the item might need to avoid damage or destruction.
Do I understand correctly? :-)
I think I understand this, but let's try an example. In several parts. :-)
Harsk wants an efficient quiver. He's a ranger, so he can't make one on his own.
Simplest option is to buy one. He's in Sandpoint, so he's not likely to find one for sale here. He'll have to go to Magnimar, where he'll have a 75% chance to find one. Cost: 1800 GP.
Second option: hire a mage to make one for him. He'll need a mage capable of casting a 5th level spell, so probably a 9th level wizard. Again, he'll have to go to Magnimar to find one. Cost: 1800 GP - half of which is the wizard's cost to make it, so half is the wizard's profit. If the wizard is higher than 9th level, it will cost him more (I think).
Question: if Harsk finds a leatherworker to make the quiver, can he save money on the total cost? I'm guessing no.
Third option: switch class to wizard and learn to make it himself. He'll have to work his way up to 9th level and get the "craft wondrous item" feat. Cost: 900 GP, which includes the cost of the quiver and also any spell components needed. Oh, and he'll have to learn the "secret chest" spell. I would guess that in this application of that spell, the small model of the "secret chest" object (see the spell description) is not required, and not used in practice, because this isn't an item you summon, it's one you wear. Oh, and if he gets leather crafting he could make the (non-wondrous) quiver himself (not sure at what cost). Seems like an awful lot of work - and time. I suspect he'd rather go to Magnimar and buy one. :-)
Last question: the description in the CRB of the efficient quiver says "CL: 9" I assume this is because 9th is the minimum level at which a wizard can cast the required spell, and that the CL of the item only affects any saving throw the item might need to avoid damage or destruction.
Do I understand correctly? :-)
Why can't he take craft wondrous item and make it himself? Both the caster level AND spell prereqs can be bypassed with a high enough DC. All he needs is the feat, which he can qualify for once he has a caster level from his ranger spellcasting (or if he has an SLA).
Otherwise, easier just to go to magnimar, yes.
He does not need a 9th level wizard. A 3rd level wizard is sufficient to make an Efficient Quiver.
Skill DC to craft if you do not have the spell: 5(base)+9(CL)+5(spell requirement) = 19.
Level 3 wizard with a 16 intelligence: 3(ranks)+3(intelligence)+3(class skill) = +9 bonus.
Take 10 and the level 3 wizard succeeds.
Gauss, where is that in the rules?
I found it. I came up with the same DC 24 for Harsk, and he can't take Craft Wondrous Item until CL 3, which for him is level 6. If he has spellcraft from level 1, that gives him an extra 3 ranks in the skill, but that would probably be negated by a lower INT, putting him back at +9, just like Gauss' wizard. If the DC is 24, neither of them can take 10. Take 20 won't work either, because failure in attempting to craft a wondrous item results in a cursed item.
If Gauss is right, 3rd level wizard or 6th level Ranger would work. I wonder at what level Urk the half orc fighter can do this? I'm too tired to try to figure that out though, so I'm going to bed.
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Gauss is correct. The caster level of the item is not in any form a requirement for crafting that item. The DC is only 19. FAQ.
Pearl of Power: What is the caster level required to create this item?
Though the listed Caster Level for a pearl of power is 17th, that caster level is not part of the Requirements listing for that item. Therefore, the only caster level requirement for a pearl of power is the character has to be able to cast spells of the desired level.However, it makes sense that the minimum caster level of the pearl is the minimum caster level necessary to cast spells of that level--it would be strange for a 2nd-level pearl to be CL 1st.
For example, a 3rd-level wizard with Craft Wondrous Item can create a 1st-level pearl, with a minimum caster level of 1. He can set the caster level to whatever he wants (assuming he can meet the crafting DC), though the pearl's caster level has no effect on its powers (other than its ability to resist dispel magic). If he wants to make a 2nd-level pearl, the caster level has to be at least 3, as wizards can't cast 2nd-level spells until they reach character level 3. He can even try to make a 3rd-level pearl, though the minimum caster level is 5, and he adds +5 to the DC because he doesn't meet the "able to cast 3rd-level spells" requirement.
A 6th level ranger with Craft Wondrous Item, max ranks in Spellcraft, and Int 10+ can make the quiver.
A fighter or other non caster can only make magic items by taking Master Craftsman, which also limits them to a particular craft skill. So if Urk the half orc fighter wants to make an efficient quiver he needs 5 ranks in Craft (leathermaking), Master Craftsman as a 5th level feat, and Craft Wondrous Item as a 7th level feat. And then he's not allowed to make non-leather items (like a flying carpet or pearl of power).
WTB: Sensible magic item creation system. :-)
Oh and just so that it is said.... The price of the item is not heightened if the wizard is a higher caster level than minimum required. You always make the item at the minimum caster level needed, which means the item stays at the same price regardless of the wizard being 20th level. You COULD get it made at a higher caster level and that WOULD increase the cost, but the only real thing you would get out of it would be to make it harder to dispel. And I have seen sadistic GMs who dispelled the efficient quiver, preventing the party archer from using his arrows for a certain amount of rounds. :D
Get two efficient quivers... and then a spare mundane one, just in case.
My characters - at least all of them that would be archers - are highly paranoid for almost any eventuality, up to and including carrying around a spare ring of sustenance, just in case. Or food if they normally wear a ring of sustenance.
Ascalaphus and Ed Reppert,
CL does not equal a caster level requirement. It is just used to set the base DC.
Only if there is a caster level requirement in the requirements section of the item is there a caster level requirement. Example: Amulet of Natural Armor.
There is, iirc, a specific rule for bags of holding, and a more general and less... disastrous rule. But I don't remember the details. Still, I'd say no.
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There is, iirc, a specific rule for bags of holding, and a more general and less... disastrous rule. But I don't remember the details. Still, I'd say no.
Bags of Holding have an ... explosive ... effect when interacting with, I think it was, portable holes.
All other interactions between extradimensional spaces are, basically, that the one put inside the other one loses contact with its own ED space for the duration, but regains it when removed.
Why you always need some essentials available, for use in that Rope Trick room...