Alternate Kineticist:


Occult Adventures Playtest General Discussion


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Through the playtest, I tested and thought about improving the class. Here is may take at it:

Kineticist (alternate)

Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d10
Starting Wealth: 1d6 × 10 gp (average 35 gp).
CLASS SKILLS
The kineticist’s class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Craft (Int), Heal (Wis),Intimidate, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (planes), Linguistics, Perception, Perform, Profession, Sense Motive, Stealth (Dex), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
Skill Ranks per Level: 4 + Int modifier.

CLASS FEATURES:

Weapon and Armor Proficiency A kineticist is proficient with all simple weapons, light armor, and medium armor, but not with shields.

Elemental Focus (Su):
At 1st level, a kineticist chooses tofocus primarily in air (aerokinesis), earth (terrakinesis), fire (pyrokinesis), water (hydrokinesis), or aether (telekinesis). Her choice of element determines how she accesses the raw power of the Ethereal Plane, and it grants her access to wild talents and additional class skills. The kineticist can remotely manipulate her chosen element within her blast's reach with an effective strength equal to her constitution score. She can automatically move up to one 5 feet cube for every 2 kineticist's levels (minimum 1), anything beyond that requires a constitution check. She can shape crude non-magical objects from this element within the normal properties of the material. A craft skill check may be required for complex objects. Also, the kineticist may use any cantrip or orison with his element's name on it's description. (Aether may use prestidigitation, open/close and mage hand).

Kinetic Blast (Sp):
The same.

Wild Talent (Sp):
A kineticit gains a wild talent at 1st level and another at every two levels afterward (10 at 19th level.). (all utility talents, separated from blasting)

Burn (Ex):
The same, however a kineticist that has burn damage may choose to become exhausted instead of unconscious from 0 or negative HP.

Blasting Prowess (Sp):
A kineticit gains a blasting prowess at 2nd level and another at every two levels afterward (10 at 20th level). (all blast talents, separated from utility)

Element Tradition (Ex):
A kineticist develops her powers through understanding and training in disciplines of those who experienced the gift before.

Unarmed: The kineticist receives Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat, and may add his constitution bonus to AC as long as he is unarmored and not wielding a shield. The damage from his unarmed strikes increase as a monk of 1/2 his level (min. 1). At 6th, 12th and 18th level he may select a style or monk bonus feat.

Swordsman: The kineticist gains proficiency with a light or one handed melee martial weapon. He receives weapon focus with that weapon at 1st level, and can select bonus combat feats at 6h, 12th and 18th levels. His kineticist levels count as fighter levels for the purpose of selecting Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus and Greater Weapon Specialization for his chosen weapon. If he selects the kinetic blade talent, those feats apply to blade created.

Blaster: The kineticist gains the Precise Shot feat, and may select the following feats for his Wild Blast even without fulfilling the prerequisites: Focused Shot, from 6th level: Snap Shot, from 9th level: Improved Snap Shot. He receives bonus feats at 6th, 12th and 18th level from the following list:
Focused Shot, Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus (blast) and Rapid Shot.
At 6th level, he adds Improved Precise Shot, Parting Shot and Point Blank Master to the list.
At 12th level, he adds Pinpoint Targeting and Shot on the Run to the list.

The benefits of the kineticist's chosen style feats apply only when he wears light, medium, or no armor. He loses all benefits of his combat style feats when wearing heavy armor. Once a kineticist selects a combat style, it cannot be changed.

Feel the Burn (Ex):
At 3rd level, a kineticist’s body surges with energy from her chosen element when she accepts burn, causing her to glow with a nimbus of fire, weep water from her pores, take on an earthen skin tone, or experience some other thematic effect. In addition, she receives a bonus on all attack and damage rolls with her kinetic blast equal to double the number of points of burn she is currently suffering, to a maximum of +2 for every 3 kineticist levels, this bonus counts as weapon enhancement for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Her flesh also becomes infused with elemental energy receiving DR 1/- and resistance 5 to her element(s) (Aether uses sonic) for every 3 kineticist levels.

Infused Body(Sp):
At 8th level the kineticist's body becomes infused with her element providing bonus equal to those received by Elemental Body I. The kineticist doesn't need to assume the form or change shape to obtain the bonus. An Aether kineticist may simulate any element form, but will not gain any subtype, element immunity, burn, vortex, water breathing, wirlwind, element resistance or movement mode. At 12th level the bonus are equal to Elemental Body II, at 16th, Elemental Body III. and at 20th, elemental Body IV

All the rest is kept the same. (although I would alter/increase several talents and some defenses).

Thoughts?


Doesn't really solve our core problem of damage, nor our secondary problem of elements being out of balance (with some much better than others).

DR/- is weird, and screws over the Terrakineticist because of how DR stacks.

Infused Body is the nail in the Terrakineticist coffin unless they stick to nothing but melee. At least make it optional, because there are a lot of people who don't like the idea of being Large/Huge due to how it tanks attack rolls.


kestral287 wrote:

Doesn't really solve our core problem of damage, nor our secondary problem of elements being out of balance (with some much better than others).

DR/- is weird, and screws over the Terrakineticist because of how DR stacks.

Infused Body is the nail in the Terrakineticist coffin unless they stick to nothing but melee. At least make it optional, because there are a lot of people who don't like the idea of being Large/Huge due to how it tanks attack rolls.

This version has higher Feel The Burn bonuses, so your attack and damage modifiers are higher each hit. The real issue with damage lies in burn costs for the stronger blasts and a lack of iterative options for ranged combat (kinetic fist could use a boost though).

I agree on the DR point, it looks out-of-place. Energy resistances are nice though.

Read a bit more carefully - you don't need to change shape or size for this version. And I don't see how bonuses to strength force an earth Kineticist to go Melee-only when the Belt of Mighty Hurling and composite bows exist.


Heladriell wrote:

Through the playtest, I tested and thought about improving the class. Here is may take at it:

Kineticist (alternate)

Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d10
Starting Wealth: 1d6 × 10 gp (average 35 gp).
CLASS SKILLS
The kineticist’s class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Craft (Int), Heal (Wis),Intimidate, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (planes), Linguistics, Perception, Perform, Profession, Sense Motive, Stealth (Dex), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
Skill Ranks per Level: 4 + Int modifier.

CLASS FEATURES:

Weapon and Armor Proficiency A kineticist is proficient with all simple weapons, light armor, and medium armor, but not with shields.

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **...

What's the action required for Kinetic Focus? And what's your opinion on ranged iteratives - currently the only way to attack more than once at range is the Quicken Metainfusion or ponying up for a conductive ranged weapon, making it significantly weaker than a kinetic blade (and maybe fist) build which benefits from BAB, haste, and the like.


LuniasM wrote:
kestral287 wrote:

Doesn't really solve our core problem of damage, nor our secondary problem of elements being out of balance (with some much better than others).

DR/- is weird, and screws over the Terrakineticist because of how DR stacks.

Infused Body is the nail in the Terrakineticist coffin unless they stick to nothing but melee. At least make it optional, because there are a lot of people who don't like the idea of being Large/Huge due to how it tanks attack rolls.

This version has higher Feel The Burn bonuses, so your attack and damage modifiers are higher each hit. The real issue with damage lies in burn costs for the stronger blasts and a lack of iterative options for ranged combat (kinetic fist could use a boost though).

I agree on the DR point, it looks out-of-place. Energy resistances are nice though.

Read a bit more carefully - you don't need to change shape or size for this version. And I don't see how bonuses to strength force an earth Kineticist to go Melee-only when the Belt of Mighty Hurling and composite bows exist.

Another-- at the high end-- +6 to hit/damage is nice, but it doesn't solve the actual damage issues in place, hence I stand by that point. It does solve the accuracy concerns, but we already have a lot of solutions to that.

The lack of need to change size is not written very clearly, to be honest. Even assuming that's the case, there's a huge problem. But the Elemental Bodies of Earth and Water cost you Dex, which means your to-hit rate drops... and your standard Terrakineticist gets nothing for that loss since most are using Dex to hit (Hydrokineticist does, because +8 Con). Are you really going to get a Composite Bow for your Terrakineticist? Instead of actually using their core class feature? Because to me that seems really, really bad.

Also, what happens when you have two different elements? Do you pick a Body or take the higher of each benefit? 'Cause that gets... kind of silly.

Personally I'd rather keep the current Kinetic Forms, as they provide larger advantages (movement modes are huge) and their costs are actually in-line with those advantages. I really don't want my Kineticist to have pseudo-special-all-day-rage.

Dark Archive

So far I like this version of the Kineticist. I really like the Element tradition. makes me think more of Avatar characters.


kestral287 wrote:
LuniasM wrote:
kestral287 wrote:

Doesn't really solve our core problem of damage, nor our secondary problem of elements being out of balance (with some much better than others).

DR/- is weird, and screws over the Terrakineticist because of how DR stacks.

Infused Body is the nail in the Terrakineticist coffin unless they stick to nothing but melee. At least make it optional, because there are a lot of people who don't like the idea of being Large/Huge due to how it tanks attack rolls.

This version has higher Feel The Burn bonuses, so your attack and damage modifiers are higher each hit. The real issue with damage lies in burn costs for the stronger blasts and a lack of iterative options for ranged combat (kinetic fist could use a boost though).

I agree on the DR point, it looks out-of-place. Energy resistances are nice though.

Read a bit more carefully - you don't need to change shape or size for this version. And I don't see how bonuses to strength force an earth Kineticist to go Melee-only when the Belt of Mighty Hurling and composite bows exist.

Another-- at the high end-- +6 to hit/damage is nice, but it doesn't solve the actual damage issues in place, hence I stand by that point. It does solve the accuracy concerns, but we already have a lot of solutions to that.

The lack of need to change size is not written very clearly, to be honest. Even assuming that's the case, there's a huge problem. But the Elemental Bodies of Earth and Water cost you Dex, which means your to-hit rate drops... and your standard Terrakineticist gets nothing for that loss since most are using Dex to hit (Hydrokineticist does, because +8 Con). Are you really going to get a Composite Bow for your Terrakineticist? Instead of actually using their core class feature? Because to me that seems really, really bad.

Also, what happens when you have two different elements? Do you pick a Body or take the higher of each benefit? 'Cause that gets... kind of silly.

Personally I'd rather keep the...

Accuracy should be fine with this version, and while damage is a concern for long-range blasters (composite blasts and metakinesis are too costly to be used often until levels 15 and 19, way too late in the level progression) the melee types pull ahead with iteratives quickly. Fortunately Mark is aware of this and has plans to fix the damage issues.

As for the size thing, see here:

Infused Body wrote:
The kineticist doesn't need to assume the form or change shape to obtain the bonus.

That seems pretty clear to me. Since you don't need to take the form of the elemental there is no need to change size. As for the Dex penalty, it doesn't actually come into play until Level 16, and by then a -1 modifier to your attack roll is hardly going to ruin a build - besides, most games never reach that point in the first place. And I think picking up a bow with a terrakineticist could be pretty good - you're basically taking a -1 to hit in exchange for +4 damage, which is a better deal than Deadly Aim if you can't afford the attack penalty progression. You can even keep using your core feature by picking up a Conductive bow - I wouldn't suggest taking up a normal weapon otherwise.

There does need to be a clarification on how Infused Body interacts with Expanded Element - I'd guess you have to pick one element each day, but the flavor of mixing elements is pretty good...

Also, Infused Body doesn't say anything about not getting movement modes. The only one who misses out on that is the Rather specialist, who previously didn't get Kinetic Form as an option anyway.


LuniasM wrote:
kestral287 wrote:
LuniasM wrote:
kestral287 wrote:

Doesn't really solve our core problem of damage, nor our secondary problem of elements being out of balance (with some much better than others).

DR/- is weird, and screws over the Terrakineticist because of how DR stacks.

Infused Body is the nail in the Terrakineticist coffin unless they stick to nothing but melee. At least make it optional, because there are a lot of people who don't like the idea of being Large/Huge due to how it tanks attack rolls.

This version has higher Feel The Burn bonuses, so your attack and damage modifiers are higher each hit. The real issue with damage lies in burn costs for the stronger blasts and a lack of iterative options for ranged combat (kinetic fist could use a boost though).

I agree on the DR point, it looks out-of-place. Energy resistances are nice though.

Read a bit more carefully - you don't need to change shape or size for this version. And I don't see how bonuses to strength force an earth Kineticist to go Melee-only when the Belt of Mighty Hurling and composite bows exist.

Another-- at the high end-- +6 to hit/damage is nice, but it doesn't solve the actual damage issues in place, hence I stand by that point. It does solve the accuracy concerns, but we already have a lot of solutions to that.

The lack of need to change size is not written very clearly, to be honest. Even assuming that's the case, there's a huge problem. But the Elemental Bodies of Earth and Water cost you Dex, which means your to-hit rate drops... and your standard Terrakineticist gets nothing for that loss since most are using Dex to hit (Hydrokineticist does, because +8 Con). Are you really going to get a Composite Bow for your Terrakineticist? Instead of actually using their core class feature? Because to me that seems really, really bad.

Also, what happens when you have two different elements? Do you pick a Body or take the higher of each benefit? 'Cause that gets... kind of silly.

...

Just to clarify, you would normally be getting +6 dex on fire and air or -2 on earth and water, and while air and fire are still better ranged options due to this boost earth and water aren't hurting as much due to the increased Feel the Burn bonuses they previously weren't getting.


I can imagine the kineticist's body becoming heavier and harder to move from the infused water/earth. Could make some pretty good melee builds.


I think they could solve the damage issue of the Kineticists if the damage scaled a bit, something like the Monk's unnarmed strike damage.

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