Hi everyone.
As the title says: does abilty drain or ability damage break any form of CC spells (like sleep, fear, etc...)
So lets imagine a fight between me (a sorcerer) and 1 random monster of any kind.
Turn 1 I inflict the spell 'poison' on it. So its constitution will be lowered by 1d3 every round (for 6 rounds). (see: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/poison)
on my second turn I cast 'sleep' on it, making it unable to do its save roll against the poison ticks. this way it will slowly but surely die from the ability damage ticking away at its constitution score.
however i found no clear note if the ability damage would break the sleep effect or not...
well the question isn't really about sleep. just if any form of CC would break from ability damage or drain. Sleep was just an example.
well the question isn't really about sleep. just if any form of CC would break from ability damage or drain. Sleep was just an example.
It's not really just an example, it's basically THE example, since I can't think of another form of CC that breaks on damage.
Anyway, Sleep specifies that it breaks if the target is wounded, not damaged, which implies to me that it has to come from an external hit, not just a poison already in there.
But honestly, how often will this come until unless you have a witch? Nobody is casting 4th level spells on targets that sleep affects.
Unless the effects overlap or stack in some way they are resolved separately. Being asleep, helpless, or whatever does not negate the saving throw from another effect although it may make it harder to save.
Example: If you are asleep and get hit by a fireball spell you still get to roll a reflex save. However, since you are helpless your effective Dexterity modifier is -5 and that will make the reflex save more difficult.
Note: You do not autofail reflex saves just because you are helpless. There is nothing in the rules that states you do.
It's not really just an example, it's basically THE example, since I can't think of another form of CC that breaks on damage.
well I can think of a few other ways.
suggestion: "I suggest you don't do anything because I won't attack you for 6 rounds."fear: saving throw -> yes, but does the poison tick break fear? (doesn't really state it breaks at all, but just to be sure)
confusion: unable to act state
charm: you are my slowly dying little friend now :P
etc...
thx to everyone responding so far:
We already established that you wil get the save roll, but not if it breaks the spell.
crazydude, I did not write what you have quoted me as writing, mplindustries did.
In any case, your examples are incomplete. If you provide a complete example then this question would be easier to answer.
Suggestion: What is interacting with it? Your example is incomplete.
Fear: Fear is not a status condition. Shaken, Frightened, and Panicked are. If you mean the Fear spell that causes creatures to be Panicked or Shaken. Poison damage does not interact with any of the fear status conditions or the fear spell. Similarly, taking damage while under a fear effect does not break the fear effect.
Confusion: What is interacting with it? Your example is incomplete.
Charm: What is interacting with it? Your example is incomplete.
I do not know where you are getting that you do not get a save if it "breaks the spell". For that matter, what do you mean by "breaks the spell"?
Please be more complete in your question and provide clear situations.
First thing is that sleep doesn't cause them to not get to save against the poison. Nohting causes you to not get a save. Being helpless (such as being unconcious) will apply a big penalty to your reflex save though, a -5. Aside from that your will and fort saves would be unaffected by sleep. Poison is usually a fort save, so your statement is inaccurate.
Secondly, and more to your question, I don't think reoccuring poison damage would not cause a creature to awaken from sleep. I don't think that qualifies as wounding. However if you caused any hp damage to it, it would. I think even a new drain effect would awaken it, but I wouldn't say that ongoing effects would awaken a creature.
yeah gauss, I know it's not your quote. I pressed reply to quote mplindustries, but you just made a post the second I did and the site mixed it up. I just edited the post afterwards to quote the right thing. Don't worry about it.
all the examples are with the poison applied to it first.
so first round the poison spell, second round the CC. I thought that was kinda clear from the opening post...
by fear I also mean the spell fear which causes frightened (or panicked in a corner).
so let me just rephrase the ham question as best I can here:
- first round: I cast the spell poison on 1 enemy, causing them to take 1d3 CON dmg each round for 6 rounds (unless successful safe roll)
- second round: I apply any kind of spell CC move (charm OR confusion OR fear OR sleep OR whetever else there is)
question: Does the 1d3 CON damage break the CC move?
meaning that on turn 3 a charmed creature would break free of the charm effect because it took 1d3 CON damage.
That is as best as I can describe it :P
That depends on the text of the ability in question.
The sleep spell only states that slapping, wounding, or being aided as a standard action awakens a sleeping creature. Taking ongoing damage would not qualify unless that damage was expressed as additional wounds. Poison would not qualify. Expect some GM variance here, though; some effects might be deemed sufficient to wake even a magically sleeping character if they're painful or otherwise distracting enough.
Most charm effects are broken if the charmer takes a hostile action against the target, but again, ongoing poison would not qualify.
The confused condition and the various stages of fear have their own specific rules as to how they work. Ongoing poison still would not end these conditions.
Advice: Read up on the specific spells and/or conditions you're interested in, then come back if you still have questions.
ok, this clearly answers my question. thx all!
I think you still roll will and fort saving throws even when asleep.
You only autofail reflex saving throws
When unconscious you are considered willing for the purposes of rolling saving throws against spells with the harmless descriptor (and for spells that only work on willing targets). You do not forgo your saving throw entirely, not even a Reflex save, to my knowledge. (Where did you get that rule from?)
It's definitely a house rule because no where in the rules does in plainly say you fail a reflex save if you are unconscious or have your dexterity effectively reduced to 0. You get a -5 penalty (on top of losing you dex bonus), which makes most saves near impossible to make.
However, if it was as simple as not moving means no reflex save it sure as hell isn't stated anywhere. I'm not saying your logic is faulty, I can understand it. It just isn't actually supported in the rules.
That is a houserule. You can be unconscious or paralyzed and you still get a reflex saving throw.You just take a -5 penalty since you are treated as if you dex score is 0(-5 mod).
Pretty fun to visualize a comatose, paralyzed 20th-level character nevertheless dodging a fireball more effectively than a healthy and unhindered 1st-level character. House rules are common.
Pretty fun to visualize a comatose, paralyzed 20th-level character nevertheless dodging a fireball more effectively than a healthy and unhindered 1st-level character. House rules are common.
The save is also about luck. He just happened to be paralyzed in the right place. The commoner was not standing in the right place. :)